How would you answer these questions that came to me in an email through my website? ...

by AndersonsInfo 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AndersonsInfo

  Many emails are sent to me through my website, watchtowerdocuments.com. All are answered. However, the following email written by someone soon to be baptized contains so many questions that I just can't take the time to answer them all, yet I feel the sincerity that this man has and I believe he should hear TTATT as he has been so blinded by the Witnesses.

  Anyone out there want to help with some of the questions that are more generic which don't need a personal reply from me? I know that the bulk of the questions are ones that can be easily responded to by experienced posters who are on this board to help others escape the mind manipulation of the Watch Tower organization.

  Many of you have helped out in the past, so I'm asking again. Thanks, Barbara

  "I have read your blog with utmost surprise and bewilderment. Although, I am not yet a baptized witness but Jehovah's Witnesses have studied with me from infancy to date. I recently became regular at meetings and began my ministry in 2011.
  
  While I note your publication with rapt attention, please, permit me to ask you the following questions if you don't mind:
  
  (The first three questions I will answer myself because they are about my personal religious beliefs.)

  4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35

  5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9

  6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?

  7. Is your anger directed at the leaders or you have believed there should be no religion to worship God? Remember Acts 28:21

  8. Why go public and initiate a lawsuit? Remember 1Corinthians 6: 1-2 (I'll answer this question. Barbara)

  9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?

  10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59

  11. On the issue of higher education, I do not think the organization banned members from seeking higher education. There a lot of witnesses in Nigeria that are in the higher school of learning. Except you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. What I understood was members should be careful not to be overtly pursuing higher education when they have a qualification that can provide them a basic means of sustenance e.g. if you are a degree holder, at least it could provide you a decent living so why go further when the time spent for further education can be used for God service. As an individual, I do not think anyone can talk me out of my personal dreams. The issue in religion I see amongst people generally is the application of the doctrines. Some are bigots while others are liberal.
  
  12. On the issue of flip-flops and the failure of witness message of doom, it maybe due to lack of understanding of the scripture at that time. Every day, new understanding is perceived. Remember 2Peter 3:16
  
  13. The issues you highlighted on more dangers are baseless as I do not see anything wrong in being neutral in times of war or refusal to salute the flag. There are scriptural basis for it e.g. Isaiah 2: 2-4; Deuteronomy 4:16
  
  13. Talking about losing friends and family members as a result of associating with witnesses, I think there is also a scriptural basis for it. Matthew 10: 32-38; Luke 12: 52-53; 14: 25-27
  
  14. On the issue of witness viewpoint, I think it has to do with individuals. Remember how the disciples of Christ were also seeking prominence. Matthew 18: 1-4, Luke 22: 24-27. As for me, doing God's work is most important to me. I do not seek to be elder any day and I do not look forward to it.
  
  15. On the issues of excommunication, there is a scriptural basis as well. Remember 2John 8-11
  
  16. I did ask the question - Who were the true Christians after the death of the last Apostle? but I did not get any convincing answer. I decided to take it that Jehovah knows best and he will always find a way to get his purpose accomplished
  
  17. Even I have challenges with the behaviour and attitude of people in general. However, I strongly believe Jehovah will use people to reach out to the ones he has chosen without necessarily rewarding all those he may have used. That is the attitude I am using to get along and I have also somehow adopted a neutral approach to avoid being hypocritical or doing eye service. In the same breath, I decided not to take responsibilities other than preaching.
  
  18. Although, you have a thorough knowledge of the organization and scriptures than I do, I just thought to respond to you on the issues you have raised. I would have loved that you and your husband never left the organization you have dedicated so much time and energy to work with. You should have seen it as a service for Jehovah and allow the scriptures to be fulfilled regarding molesters. Remember Matthew 18: 6-11, Mark 9: 42. I may not be able to turn you back to the organization because the scriptures itself made known that it is only Jehovah that can attract someone to himself John 6:44-45
  
  I hope you will see some light in my opinion and questions raised.
  
  I will be grateful to get a response from you.
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  EndofMysteries

  for #10 I would say - How often are child molesters caught in the act? The elders themselves can't convict without 2 witnesses, but that is what police are for. If a child is raped or molested they are examined by doctors, police get dna samples, etc. The bible scripture about the authorities being put in place by God to handle justice, etc. Elders hand it over the the police to investigate, and the evidence found, etc, is the other witness that is needed.

  for #4 - Where did Jehovah reveal was his own time that I stepped ahead of? How are you sure that me or whoever else revealing this is not Jehovah's time for it and he used his holy spirit to inspire people to speak out because he had enough of it?

  #9 - And how will that reasonable evidence come up if the raper is clever and there are never others around without having police and doctors involved to examine and perform dna tests?

  #15 - the excommunication scriptures and policy are all twisted. First, does anybody shun their worldly relatives? The scriptures speak about those who claim or attend the congregation but practice things and go against bible teachings, the congregation would shun them until they corrected themselves. The scriptures don't teach if somebody left to shun them for life, only to treat them as one of the nations. Which means if a JW leaves the religion, no shunning, just treat them as a non member. Shunning is only if they keep attending/remaining in the congregation but going against the bible. Also the scriptures don't teach if a member makes a sin to judge them if repentant or not. Those who sin the most the elders can do is pray for them and encourage, that's it.

  # 12 - It's one thing to admit to being imperfect man and to suggest and give possibilities for when the end may come, it's another to demand obediance and claim that good standing with God is based on obeying and taking everything they say as from God himself. If they are uninspired and imperfect, then they can only suggest but leave each person to decide for themselves what they want to follow and believe in.
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  Retrovirus

  4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35

  Then when the samaritan saw an injured man, shouldn't he have waited on Jehovah too?
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  adamah

  Hi Barbara,

  "Soon to be baptized"? That sounds more like it came from an elder, LOL!

  I'll do two:

  9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?

  Yes, but unfortunately the JWs judicial proceedings are based on ancient Hebraic law that's 3,000 yrs old, which rarely used ANY physical evidence in cases, which in modern times is the primary incriminating evidence used in modern judicial systems to convict someone of a crime like rape (i.e. DNA evidence recovered from the victim's genitals).

  Instead, the JWs rely on the old "two witness" rule, which as Pamela Barmash (a Jewish lawyer who is a Biblical scholar) explains in her book, "Homicide in the Biblical World":

  Rarely does physical evidence play a significant role in biblical law. One such instance concerns shepherds, who must produce the remains of the animal under their care that had been taken by a predator in order to be released from compensating the owner (Exod 22:12). Without witnesses, the offense cannot be remedied. An admonition against one who commits homicide in stealth appears in a list of forbidden acts committed in secrecy (Deut 27:24):

  “Accursed is the one who strikes down another in secret,” and all the people shall say, “Amen.”

  A homicide has been committed in such a way that it is impossible to prove who did it. The culprit cannot be apprehended and punished. By anathematizing acts committed clandestinely, their punishment becomes God’s responsibility, thereby discouraging would-be perpetrators who might assume that they could escape a penalty for their transgression.

  Which ties in nicely with #10:

  10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59.

  Unfortunately, JWs are modern-day Luddites who REFUSE to rely on anything BUT the testimony of at least two witnesses, and refuse to consider any modern concepts of physical evidence (like DNA) as admissible.

  Of course, that's A-OK with the accused, since any perp would be all too willing to "wait on Jehovah" for justice in the after-life, while continuing to serially-commit their crimes in private to avoid been seen (so there's only ONE witness, the victim, a scared child who only counts as one witness anyway, so they'd better keep their mouth shut, as it wouldn't do any good to complain).

  By their judicial procedures, JWs are by definition guilty of protecting and harboring pedophiles (at least in those States which don't require clergy to serve as "mandatory reporters" of child abuse).

  Does that seem like "perfect justice" to you?

  Adam
• 

  problemaddict

  Hello Barbara. These are just some random thoughts. I don't know if they will be of any use.

  4. I understand your emotional feeling as a woman regarding the molestation of teenage girls and women by members of the organization and the manner the in which the policies are applied in managing the issues, but shouldn't you have waited for Jehovah's own time? Deuteronomy 32:35

  I am not sure I understand this question. When has a servant of God seen God's people being abused and been asked to stand silent? Is it ever Jehovah's "time" to allow abuse under the guise of his organization. Rather the opposite. Waiting on jehovah in scripture never meant sitting back and letting him act. it was not passive. Gods prophets and other zealous followers took action when it was needed. Imagine if Phineus had had the attitute to "wait on Jehovah" to do something when he took action. A plague was killing many.

  Besides those issue, lets think about this practically. If you knew of something going on that was wrong, would you not bring it to anyones attention because you were waiting on jehovah, or would your conscience compel you to speak up! This is not an emotional response as a woman, it is a human respose, and it is christian to care for and act on behalf on many whom I will never meet because it is the right thing to do.

  5. I understand the hypocrisy you are trying to highlight but is leaving the organization a better choice? Remember John 6: 66-70; 1Samuel 16: 7-9

  Leaving an organization, is not the same as leaving God or his son. Your scripture shows some doubt in the minds of Jesus apostles. The modern day organization is not Jesus christ. I have not left Jesus Christ. Those whom you study with would have you believe such a thing. In fact is there not a scriptural precident with not wanting to associate yourself with anything "unclean"? Can you think of one or two?

  As far as 1 Samuel is concerned, I agree that man does not see what god sees. All we can do with our limited perceptions, is to judge people by their actions and words. Out of the hearts abundance the mouth speaks does it not? You have to pay attention to what a person does (or does not do), in order to really see what they are about as much as it is possible for us to do so.

  6. What is then the hope for salvation or have you believed there is no salvation for mankind?

  Barbara I do not know your personal beliefs, but I usually tell people that salvation has and will continue to be from the bibles perspective about faith in Jesus ransom sacrifice and working in accord with that faith by following his example. Does he believe salvation is through another means?

  7. Is your anger directed at the leaders or you have believed there should be no religion to worship God? Remembe

  r Acts 28:21

  Once again, this seems personal, but I would first say you are not angry. Let him know he is starting from a place where your motives and personality have already been told to him and he is making an improper assumption about your state of mind. How you feel about religion is not material. What matters in your particular case is that you are trying to shine light on a problem with in a religion you once held very dear, and were vilified for it. You were not the angry one.

  8. Why go public and initiate a lawsuit? Remember 1Corinthians 6: 1-2 (I'll answer this question. Barbara)

  9. As a man, I hate rape and child molestation, but shouldn't there be reasonable evidence to convict somebody of a crime?

  Of course there should be, and this is at the very heart of the matter. The elders in any congregation are not qualified to investigate crimes. They deal only with the spiritual side of things. They also have no say over the law of the land. So why is it so difficult for the policy to simply state when an allegation is made, it is reported to the proper authorities? Who is thinking about the children in this scenario? Who is concerned with how they are viewed?

  10. I understand your frustration with the two witnesses account policy but if someone denies the allegation, the organization have no means of establishing the truth without adequate evidence. In this case, shouldn't you have thought that vengeance belongs to God? Remember Romans 12: 17-19; Luke 12: 52 -59

  The organization has no moral responsability to investigate and punish a crime. They have a moral responsability to turn over the information to the experts who are able to do so. Molestation never has 2 witnesses except for the person that is being abused and the abuser. Think of this scenario. If a man molests a child, there are no witnesses so the elders don't do anything but keep an eye on him. Later he moves to another hall, and the same allegation is made. If these things were reported to the police, he would be immediately investigated and most likely charged. If the second set of elders feels the same as the first, then who starts to bear the guilt for this mans repeat offenses? Do you think it could have been stopped?

  11. On the issue of higher education, I do not think the organization banned members from seeking higher education. There a lot of witnesses in Nigeria that are in the higher school of learning. Except you can provide me with evidence to the contrary. What I understood was members should be careful not to be overtly pursuing higher education when they have a qualification that can provide them a basic means of sustenance e.g. if you are a degree holder, at least it could provide you a decent living so why go further when the time spent for further education can be used for God service. As an individual, I do not think anyone can talk me out of my personal dreams. The issue in religion I see amongst people generally is the application of the doctrines. Some are bigots while others are liberal.

  I can only speak about what we receive her in the United States. You are not allowed to serve unless there are special circumstances, in the congregation if you are attending a University. There is no "ban" on it perse, since that would be aviolation of human rights. it is however highly discouraged. A CD ROM search of "higher education" will rpovide you with more than enough material to see that is the case. (I believe there is a letter to the body of elders that has been on here saying how elders would perhaps not qualify if their children attend university). It is interesting to note that in the united states, Jehovah's Witnesses have the second lowest rate of education among all religions per a pew research forum study performed here.
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  ablebodiedman

  15. On the issues of excommunication, there is a scriptural basis as well. Remember 2John 8-11

  Yes, there are scriptural basis for excommunication:

  John 16:1-3

  "I have spoken these things to YOU that YOU may not be stumbled. 2 　Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 　But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.

  Isaiah 66:5

  　Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: "YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame."

  Romans 9:26

  and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’"

  ‘YOU are not my people,’ ------> [Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness

  .
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  ABibleStudent

  Hi Barbara, Is it possible to answer just one question now, and then ask him what other question causes him the most doubt about the WTBTS? Obviously, he has doubts or why would he be asking you for answers. If you answer his questions, he will not gain as much insight as if he would by doing his own research.

  You could also ask him if he has visited www.jwfacts.com for answers to most of his other questions, or to join JWN and ask questions about his doubts.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  ablebodiedman

  18. Although, you have a thorough knowledge of the organization and scriptures than I do, I just thought to respond to you on the issues you have raised. I would have loved that you and your husband never left the organization you have dedicated so much time and energy to work with. You should have seen it as a service for Jehovah and allow the scriptures to be fulfilled regarding molesters. Remember Matthew 18: 6-11, Mark 9: 42. I may not be able to turn you back to the organization because the scriptures itself made known that it is only Jehovah that can attract someone to himself John 6:44-45

  It is only Jesus Christ who can attract followers to himself:

  Hebrews 13:12-14

  　Hence Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13　Let us, then, go forth to himoutside the camp, bearing the reproach he bore, 14　for we do not have here a city that continues, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come.

  Revelation 14:4

  These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.
• 

  ablebodiedman

  12. On the issue of flip-flops and the failure of witness message of doom, it maybe due to lack of understanding of the scripture at that time. Every day, new understanding is perceived. Remember 2Peter 3:16

  The issue of the Jehovah's Witness approaching doom failures may be due to a lack of understanding the commandment Jesus Christ directly gave us regarding this:

  Luke 21:8

  　He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

  .
• 

  Band on the Run

  The point about physical evidence not being used much in Judaism and early Christianity is a good point. I learned that up to the Renaissance in England, Christinaity relied upon trial by Jesus.ordeal. A victim was pressed with large weights. Well, if the person were innocent, Jesus would intervene, and the person would be saved. There was another ordeal that involved drowning. The accused was thrown into a river with weights on the body. If he drowned he was innocent, but all worked for better with trial by ordeal. Jesus would miraculously intervene and save the person or welcome the accused into heaven.

  The two witness rule has little to do with criminality. It has to do with JW adminstrative structures. Criminality is a matter for law enforfcement personnel. One has nothing to do with the other. Corrobative evidence has taken the place of many witnesses present in modern rape law. DNA, similar complaints by children in the community, can also provide better evidence than extra witnesses. These tests require technical expertise. Fresh sample are important.

  I would never consider myself an expert in pedophilia. JW elder have no experience in forensics. Is something a principle or is it meant literally? JWs do not follow all Bible rules in the same manner. It is fair that the Bible has an overiding theme of justice. When one specific minor matter overrules a general Bible theme. The minor rule should be examined.