The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

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  yadda yadda 2

  Think about my posts above Sunny23. What does the physical evidence of history and your own eyes tell you about whether there is an intervening God or not?

  Once you've followed the evidence to it's inevitable conclusion, all you really have left is Pascals Wager. One chooses to believe in God not for evidentiary or scientific reasons, but as a sort of insurance policy just in case.

  Pascal's Wager is an argument in apologetic philosophy which was devised by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician, and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623–1662). It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or does not exist. Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming the infinite gain or loss associated with belief in God or with unbelief, a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.). [1]
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  cofty

  Pelican you seem to prefer semantics to real conversation.

  Your god observed a tsunami rise from the midst of the Indian Ocean and rush towards a quarter of a million innocent men women and children.

  He failed to act or he chose not to act. Apparently though he does provide wealthy christians with food and new jobs and parking spaces and helps them pass exams and heals their infected toe-nails.

  You can't have theism and a loving god. You have to choose.
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  sunny23

  If you thank god for anything he/she does in your life you affirm your belief in a god who acts in time. You then also have to answer why he fails to act._cofty

  YES! That's exactly what I would try and make my stubborn MS younger brother understand. He believed God blesses his people and his congregations. Even elders would announce that financial success of the congregation to provide for the CO was a blessing from God.

  You can't attribute blessings and not non-blessings!!
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  cofty

  You are getting there Sunny!
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  sunny23

  Yadda Yadda. I already know of pascals wager. I'm at point in life holding my chips in hand (next 40+ yrs) and trying to figure out what to bet my wager on. This forum exists in my eyes to assist in making that bet.
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  cofty

  Sunny begin with facts that do not depend on opnion or interpretation of ancient texts.

  Does your theology align with reality?

  Get that sorted first then see what theology if any you still have room for.
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  sunny23

  "Then we would have to determine the max time we would allot for such a bet on rightfull sovereignty. If you were God when would you have put a stop to it? Consider that ALL forms and types of human rule and satanic influences would need to be explored and tested fully first."Homo spaiens with the ability to feel anguish, loss and despair have been suffering for over 100 000 years. Has it really taken that long for god to settle a silly bet??" Cofty

  "Then we would have to determine the max time we would allot for such a bet on rightfull sovereignty. If you were God when would you have put a stop to it? Consider that ALL forms and types of human rule and satanic influences would need to be explored and tested fully first.-Me

  What would you say Cofty?
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  yadda yadda 2

  Then we would have to determine the max time we would allot for such a bet on rightfull sovereignty. If you were God when would you have put a stop to it? Consider that ALL forms and types of human rule and satanic influences would need to be explored and tested fully first.

  Yes, and there are innumerable forms of government that could be trialled in the future. You could have a world rulership based purely on scientific analysis and computerised distribution of resources where the human need is greatest, ie, to reduce the worst kinds of suffering. How about a form of world government by electronic vote on any given issue, like global government by census. How about rulership by women only, no men allowed, since history shows males have nearly always ruled and caused all the suffering (Margaret Thatcher aside lol).

  Ultimately, given a long enough time horizon and scientific advancement, there is no reason to believe man is incapable of self-governance.

  In fact, isn't the rule of the 144,000 a rule by human beings, only resurrected ones? What after the millennial reign, who rules then? Revelation describes human kings ruling on earth. So even Biblically it's ultimately God's purpose that human's administrate themselves.
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  PelicanBeach

  Cofty,

  I wrote, "He does not "fail" to act. He chooses not to act as mankind wants him to."

  To which you replied:

  "Pelican you seem to prefer semantics to real conversation."

  No. I have tried to engage you in conversation, as you well know.

  "Your god observed a tsunami rise from the midst of the Indian Ocean and rush towards a quarter of a million innocent men women and children."

  Yes, I have already admitted this as correct.

  "He failed to act or he chose not to act. Apparently though he does provide wealthy christians with food and new jobs and parking spaces and helps them pass exams and heals their infected toe-nails.

  You can't have theism and a loving god. You have to choose."

  As I said the earth is quite capable of providing food for all. But you for some reason do not wish to address that comment. You insist on going the way of wealthy Christians and such. Yes, there are wealthy Christians. Yes, there are greedy Christians, Christians who lie and murder, Christians who rape children, Christians who are the filth of humanity. What do you want me to say? That because so many Christians are hypocrites etc, that means that God does not exist? Sorry, won't happen. Why? Because what hypocritical, stupid, evil people do, or do not do, has absolutely nothing to do with God.
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  cofty

  As I said the earth is quite capable of providing food for all.

  This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. I have not mentioned famine anywhere. I have also not used the hypocrisy of believers as an argument against theism.

  So far you have declined to address the topic.