If they changed their blood ban…would their be a floodgate of lawsuits?

by Londo111 46 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    if a jw does accept a blood transfusion--who is going to know--?

    If a JW covertly accepts a BT. Likely many of the medical personnel would assist in "hiding" the fact. And yes, they can "repent" and remain in or be reinstated in short order, so it seems.

    What IS an issue is the fact that many sincere JWs will NOT accept a BT when it is the only answer to saving their life, ie leukemia or hemmoraging. These folks CANNOT get reinstated after a few months, they are DEAD. My sister recently had complications with severe anemia while needing surgery. Fortunately she had very little blood loss and it did not become a life or death issue. However, I fear that had there been a crisis, she would have chosen death over disobeying the GB. Since she's getting older, and a little dense, she doesn't really understand the "fractions" loophole, thus she probably would refuse ANYTHING, thinking she is pleasing God in her decisions even if it costs her own life.

    Yet, if her life was spared by her accepting "fractions" she may be unable to live with her "Bible WT Trained" conscience.

    Doc

  • adamah
    adamah

    Simon said-

    So what ban do they drop? You would be hard pressed to nail the WTS down to admitting they now had any ban on blood or blood products. It's been long abandoned ... they just never told their own members.

    Of course, that ties in quite nicely with the subtle nuanced shift in semantics we've seen recently, where the WT has been very careful to replace the phrase, "free will" with "freedom of choice", as seen in the Awake! July 2009 article called, "Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?"

    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009251

    In the section called, 'Balancing Family Loyalty":

    Should family conflict be avoided at all costs? The Bible teaches that children should be obedient to parents and that wives should be in subjection to their husbands. (Ephesians 5:22; 6:1) However, it instructs those who love God to “obey God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) Thus, at times, loyalty to God may result in your making a decision that is unpopular with some family members.

    Although the Bible makes a clear distinction between true and false teachings, God allows each person the freedom to choose how he or she will respond. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family. Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the Bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family.—1 Corinthians 7:12, 13.

    The WT has shifted away from claiming that deciding how to worship God is a "free-will" choice, since the term has a meaning within the law that implies freedom from consequences; instead, they're claiming God allows each person the "freedom of choice" to decide what "true teachings" are, but per JW beliefs, the decision to leave JWs (the "true religion") ultimately means paying for the decision with destruction in Armageddeon, but first by being shunned by congregation and family members. So characterizing it as 'freedom of choice' allows for plausible deniability, since it DOESN'T carry the connotation of being free of consequences or ramifications (as 'free will' does).

    The use of 'freedom of choice' allows the Society to claim that while members may have decided to leave the "Truth", they didn't have a reaonable expectation to avoid having to 'paying the piper' for the decision, i.e. their fellow congregants and family members also in turn enjoy the freedom to choose NOT to associate with them; the elders simply announce that the person is no longer a member of the JWs, and everyone just knows what they are expected to do.

    That's where the Society can say they don't REQUIRE anyone to shun their own family members, although the failure to shun means the non-compliant person is suspectable to charges of 'brazen conduct'; if they persist they risk being DFed, as well. So every member enjoys freedom of association (which includes the right NOT to associate with others).

    Further, shunning IS considered as a protected practice under freedom of worship doctrines, where courts have ruld that shunning can be practiced as part of religious worship.

    It's a seemingly insurmountable barrier to overcome, esp in this day and age where religions are given a free pass on a multitude of sins. If it weren't all so dastardly and evil, I'd be tempted to call it 'brilliant'.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    The branch uses the first ammendment both as a sword and a shield. Whatever it needs at the moment.

    HERE IS THE KEY.

    People are really not effectively disfellowshipped for this anymore. Elders are instructed to "show mercy" since the person probably had an especially hard decision what with evil doctors trying to save them and all that. This is actually what they are being told.

    A former CO friend of mine (who witnesses to me on the regular), has told me and I quote, "we don't really DF for that anymore, in fact as long as I have been serving, I have seen only two cases, andin both of them the brothers dealt mercifully."

    So just wait for the people with dead loved ones to die themselves, or get over it.....and you have no more issue. The histroy rewrite continues.

    This is the most damning thing out there in my opinion, and yet for some reason people kind of shrug it off if I tell them its an issue for me. They are all like "what" and "huh". And I am all like.....you are stupid.

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    I don't think it would be hard at all to prive the Societ's no blood issue. I'm in my mid 50's and I clearly remember it, what about the folks who were in and turned downed blood and or still alive? I'm sure they remember. Better yet ask some Drs, I'm sure they remember their wacky patients saying no blood, I went to a Dr. about two years ago and he was telling me the procedures of some surgery and although he didn't violate the HIPPA law, he randomly worked in something about one of his JW patients totally turning down blood referring to the procedures of the operation or something

    One of the wackiest stories I remember is my friends sister who was in labor, she and her husband going to hospital to hospital to explain her situation about blood, one said that she would need it, they both left and drove to another, same story, finally a Dr. who complied with their opinion, but in labor and going from hospital to hspital and still follwing seven old men in Bklyn's rules who have you believing it's straight from Jah, that really sad.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    They have let go of thier blood doctrine, just go to a hospital and act like your in and may need blood. You will be amazed when the jw with the liaison comity talks to u how much blood is ok. When I was there I stoped the sister and asked her was she a jw. I thought the hospital had there own comity at that point because of how much blood products she was saying was ok.

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    First, the Watchtower is a religion. Religions can change their doctrine without legal liability in the US. Even if they were not a religion, attorneys can not bring into evidence a "subsequent remedial measure" (i.e. fixing a mistake) to prove that the original was wrong. I can't say about the rest of the world. But, the Watchtower actually changing their stance would be a loss of credibility. I think the Watchtower no longer believes in its blood ban. Hence, no new articles. Further, I think the Watchtower is hoping that the "fractions" will end up being the medical norm. So, as science grows to fit the Watchtower, the Watchtower does not have to adapt its policy.

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    i came to terms with this "blood issue" back in 1971--when my jw wife was carrying our 1st child. i was 23 at the time. as far as i was concerned--no religion or god was worth risking my family's life. so--i quit the religion.

    job done.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    It was our moral choice to follow the Witnesses. We could not do some criminal act and escape punishment. My family members sat in jail or prison during the Rutherford years. Blaming the WT alone is too easy. I don't know all the psychodynamics of a cult. Unlike other groups, Witnesses don't live in compounds. Thank goodness. I wish we could highlight the shunning aspect of the religion. For some unknown reason, many regular people have a notion that Witnesses have extraordinary morals. They may be an annoyance at the front door but Witnesses are good people. I err on the side of staying calm when I discuss my past Witness life with people. Shunning and Jehovah destroying all regular people at Armageddon always brings raised eyebrows.

    The last time someone decided to argue with me b/c his neighbors were Jehovah's Witnesses. I asked him if he thought I was a lair or exaggerated. He was welcome to look up these facts online. Of course, if you have access JW.org, one would not recognized the religion at all. My parents predicted a change in the blood pollicy when I was a child. My mom once told a hospital "no blood" for my younger sister. I was shocked. If you are a Witness for more than a few years, you know Bethel changes its doctrines. Who will be the last Witness to die from the blood policy? I overhear conversations in the ER. Only a few months ago, I sat in an ER on a busy weekend. An otherwise sophisticated woman was refusing blood a few beds over. She must have praised the big J. about ten times. The doctors react so matter of factly.

    Please, I remember the mad dash home from the KH to pull out the goldfish food to make certain there was no blood in it. We passed with flying colors. My family and fish were safe from Armageddon for one more day. Crazy stuff. Phone calls were made to check out about family member's fish food. The rules don't matter in the end. The control matters. It is nice that I don't have to panic about God destroying me b/c of fish food.

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    Hey Crazyguy if you're still following this thread, there's something I find most interesting in your post regarding two words that follow each other . . . just sayin'.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    well i was typing on my phone so things dont always spell to well.

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