What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Bobcat- Still thinking about the substance of the narrative. I note your point regards the size of the baskets used to collect the fragments, the "provision basket" being large enough to hall Paul up the wall in Damascus, and the "basket" a smaller size to carry on a journey.

    The 7 and 12 baskets appear to me to relate to time periods, 7 days, and 12 months. I wonder if the 5 plus 7 loaves which equal 12 refer to the "loaves of the presents" in general terms and the 5th and 7th loaves refer to positions held by the heads of the 12 tribes. I am trying to remeber where I have come across this before, I think there is a connection in the monastic documents from the Dead Sea Scrolls?

    prologos- I agree with your point that the supernatural story of the feedings didnot happen, however I am not dismissing the event information due to it's written appearance. I believe that the gospels contain a true and accurate account of the historic events of this period and for numerous reasons, the main one as you note, they are clovered and hidden. In order to understand the true meaning of the text we need additional knowledge which if the early church would have had, and probably still do, but the need for the cash was better accomplished by the use of the myth than the factual events.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Bart:

    There is an interesting footnote in the NICNT commentary about the pieces of bread collected as leftovers. D. Instone-Brewer, in his reference Traditions (1:182), "suggests . . . that these were the pieces broken off by the individual eaters as an elevation offering before eating the rest of the bread; such portions were not to be eaten but must be given to a priest or destroyed."

    I don't know what evidence exists for such a tradition. It is interesting that the accounts only mention the leftovers as an indication of the size of the miracle. No mention of toting them around afterwards, although Keener, in his NT Background commentary mentions one source as saying that traveling Jews carrying baskets was not uncommon.

    The numbers mentioned in the accounts are interesting, to be sure. But for me, the accounts would have to give some clue that they had some significance beyond their setting. And so far I haven't seen evidence for that beyond the fact that those same numbers have some symbolic value elsewhere in the Bible.

    If you find anything I would sure be glad to see you post about it here.

    Take Care

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Bobcat- On the question of the priest, who would have been a levite, again I have some recolection of a 13th loaf in addition to the 12 of the presence, specifically for the consumption of the levites. I wonder if the fragments were carried on apostelist mission as a token of the Passover? I will carry on trying to dig this out.

    BB

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Bobcat- On the question of the priest, who would have been a levite, again I have some recolection of a 13th loaf in addition to the 12 of the presence, specifically for the consumption of the levites. I wonder if the fragments were carried on apostelist mission as a token of the Passover? I will carry on trying to dig this out.

    BB

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