mrhhome - your previous statements read in context would suggest are a bigot...
I am certainly willing to have a rational, dispassionate discussion of the issues with someone who does likewise. This does not qualify.
Fallacies about Faith
by tec 340 Replies latest jw friends
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mrhhome
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cofty
Your own words say all that needs to be said.
I am surprised anybody would even think about posting such prejudiced ignorance.
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adamah
mrhhome said- adamah, have I ever advocated following Deuteronomical law?
Are one of those Xians who believe "all scriptures are inspired by God", or are you the type who ignores the immoral heinous actions ordered by the OT God and claims a New Covenant is in effect now, so you can just sweep the horrors of OT God under the rug as if it never happened?
If you're the latter type, you still must account for the fact that it's the same ol' deity in charge, the same one who commanded killing of gays and genocide. Are you the kind of believer like EdenOne, who's also willing to forego God's immutability (e.g. Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Ps. 102:26; Mal. 3:6; 2 Tim. 2:13; Heb. 6:17–18; Jam. 1:17) and hope that somehow He's changed?
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mrhhome
adamah, I assume that you are talking about a scripture such as Deut 20. This is obviously a hard scripture. It has caused people to scratch their heads for almost two millenia. No, I do not condone slavery, nor do I condone killing gays.
Deuteronomy was written circa 600 BC about what someone (i.e. Moses) said God told them 800 years prior. Good reason alone to approach it with caution. Being a Methodist, I apply reason, tradition, and personal experience when studying scripture to discern God's will. Fortunately, none of which condone slavery or killing gays.
Is it "inspired"? I believe that the Bible is a story of people trying to understand God. It chronicles how their understanding of God evolved. Mistakes and all. As such, it is "inspired" in that we can learn from it. Sometimes, hard passages like this generate the most discussion, which is good. No, I do not believe that God changed his mind, even though I have heard some Christians claim as such.
There are books and books providing commentary on Deuteronomy. If you want, we can pick one that is mutually acceptable and begin a book review thread. Deuternomy has certainly generated considerable discussion in the church dating all the way back to Pauline letters.
Sorry that I do not fit into one of your pigeon holes.
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adamah
mrhhome said- adamah, I assume that you are talking about a scripture such as Deut 20. This is obviously a hard scripture. It has caused people to scratch their heads for almost two millenia. No, I do not condone slavery, nor do I condone killing gays.
Deuteronomy was written circa 600 BC about what someone (i.e. Moses) said God told them 800 years prior. Good reason alone to approach it with caution. Being a Methodist, I apply reason, tradition, and personal experience when studying scripture to discern God's will. Fortunately, none of which condone slavery or killing gays.
What, is God's "perfect laws" somehow NOT so perfect, after all?
Hmmm, it sounds to me like someone's using their "horribly flawed mortal (fallible) moral compass" to reach moral decisions anyway? Isn't that a sin?
Welcome to the club then, since that's EXACTLY what atheists do, as well; we know there is no evidence on which to build a belief in God, and morality has to be hashed out without resorting to ancient books written by uninspired men who lived in an ancient culture, where eg slavery and killing of gays was normative behavior (and backed by an appeal to authority).
mrhhome said- Is it "inspired"? I believe that the Bible is a story of people trying to understand God. It chronicles how their understanding of God evolved. Mistakes and all. As such, it is "inspired" even if it is not always pretty. No, I do not believe that God changed his mind, even though I have heard some Christians claim as such.
Clearly I meant "inspired by God", the same one who is talked about in the Good Book.
mrhhome said- There are books and books providing commentary on Deuteronomy. If you want, we can pick one that is mutually acceptable and begin a book review thread. Deuternomy has certainly generated considerable discussion in the church dating all the way back to Pauline letters.
I've read many books on the subject already, but sure, what did you have in mind?
mrhhome said- Sorry that I do not fit into one of your pigeon holes.
This may be a news-flash for you, but with 35,000 flavors of Xianity alone, there are plenty of pigeon holes to go around. In fact, given that many individuals in the same denomination may proclaim quite a divergence of beliefs, I'd say that it's more likely for there to be 7 billion concepts of God out there, which should tell you something: could it be that all these various images of God(s) are actually stemming from the images created in the minds of men? Ya' think?
Adam
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FlyingHighNow
'Perfect justice' implies rendering punishment in accord with prescribed legal procedure, with no room for lenience; 'perfect mercy' requires showing lenience from justice, so the two are fundamentally at odds.
Not to me. Perfect justice means taking into consideration all extenuating circumstances and showing mercy.
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FlyingHighNow
'Perfect justice' implies rendering punishment in accord with prescribed legal procedure,
YOu made this one up, come on, you know you did. Justice can mean fairness and mercy, silly billy.
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Qcmbr
Christian concepts of justice are immoral . They introduce the concept of an intermediary willing to pay the price of the transgressor simply by magically removing the payment cost. The intermediary pays the price by simply removing the debt but never paying for it. If i get punched in the nose by a xian they can obtain forgivenesness by a magic ritual ( prayer and or confessional plus potential ritualistic penance) non of which actually renders me, the victim, any justice but implies that instead I simply suck up the pain and render mercy. Very evil system that requires a human sacrifice to make it all 'work'. yuckyuckyuck.
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FlyingHighNow
I prefer the Universalist approach to justice.
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adamah
Definition of Justice (Merriam-Webster):
a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments c : the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
Definition of Mercy (Merriam-Webster):
a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy> b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder 2 b : a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze> 3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>
Examples of MERCY
- He is a vicious criminal who deserves no mercy.
A judge may show mercy to someone who killed all of your loved ones by letting the criminal go free (as an 'act of mercy', since the accused has a child at home he needs to feed, and putting the killer to death would interfere with his ability to work and provide for his children).
You'd probably protest if the judge didn't provide the maximum-possible punishment under the law (eg death penalty); that justice would ALSO be merciful for you, since showing no leniency or favortism means protecting your sense of justice and fairness (AKA trust that the system works as it should).
It's easy to say God is both merciful and just, but it's mostly vapid lip-flapping, since it's a bit like saying God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, etc. It's simply stacking a bunch of desirable qualities on top of one another, regardless if they're contradictory or not.