Fallacies about Faith (page 14)

mrhhome

Below is data that I have posted 2 times previously, but you and other theists ignore it and similar data and simply spew idioacy. - DJS

I am glad you posted again. I saw your previous post but had moved onto new threads. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to address this.

There is much to address in your post, but let's give this this the rigorous treatment that it deserves. Please post the links to all the studies and data you referenced. I am especially interested in the last.

The more religious a state’s population, the higher the crime, STD and teen pregnancy rates.

Let's work our way through this methodically.

mrhhome

Did you really just say that unbelievers are immoral?

My statement was pretty clear. What we believe impacts what we do. Some actions are moral and some immoral.

Would you deny that generally speaking Christians and athetist fall on different sides of important moral debates? [Abortion, same sex marriage, etc.]

I do, however, make a clear distinction between the actions and the people. With the exception of a few extreme cases, I would not label someone immoral, because we all fall somewhere on the spectrum. It is not my place to judge a person. However, I will (am obligated to?) decide what actions are right and wrong.

FlyingHighNow

God cannot be perfectly just and perfectly merciful.

Why not? Do you mean, Tec's god? Do you mean any god?

Band on the Run

One could also argue about what truth means. I feel Jesus was limited by the knowledge available in the first century. He was a prophet. It is unclear whether he himseself saw himself as the Messiah. Tammy has a right to believe whatever she wants as long as breaks no laws or harms no one. Others have a right to disagree with her. It is beyond my comprehension why certain believers, such as Tammy, come to an ex Jw forum and believe they can post without replies from others. She has her own forum where the traffic can be restricted to fellow believers. I can't recall when Tammy had anything to offer on the forum besides the belief that Christ speaks to her personallly. This thread was an exercise in proving there is not much to her belief beyond hearing voices.

Certain beliefs turn people inwards. Others, such as the social gospel proponents, turn outward to community. I fail to see what hearing voices adds to the Jehovah's Witnesses discussions. The great mystics turned inwards. Of course, they left behind beautiful writings concerning their struggles with contemplation.

I don't see what engaging Tammy brings me. It would be nice if she could explain her belief. The mere assertion of voices and Witness beliefs dressed up as something new is not convincing to me. Perhaps some things cannot be expressed. Others here give it a good try, though. What does it mean to say Christ is true? True about what?

There are certain sayings of Jesus, usually the ones in Mark, that trouble me. I don't have a clue what he means. The apocalyptic sayings, the remarks about breaking up families,-The Christ proclaimed by the Church is easier to deal with. As I said before, Jesus leaves me with questions and respect.

adamah

Mrhhome said-

I do, however, make a clear distinction between the actions and the people. With the exception of a few extreme cases, I would not label someone immoral, because we all fall somewhere on the spectrum. It is not my place to judge a person. However, I will (am obligated to?) decide what actions are right and wrong.

Uh, no, you're not.

In fact, that's the entire POINT of claiming that God-given morality found in the Bible is superior to man's, since mankind's moral compass is said to be fallible and unreliable.

But are you prepared to publicly state that God was immoral for saying that owning other humans is A-OK, and stoning homosexuals to death are moral laws?

Your morality is inferior to that of non-believers, since I can easily state that such actions are clearly immoral, without even a moment's hesitation. All people are human beings, not mere chattel to dispose of as you wish, or if their actions and private behaviors offend your sensibilities.

You cannot publicly state the same, since condemning God's past actions publicly is second-guessing a prior act of God's will, which you believe would be a sin.

adamah

FHN asked:

God cannot be perfectly just and perfectly merciful.

Why not? Do you mean, Tec's god? Do you mean any god?

'Perfect justice' implies rendering punishment in accord with prescribed legal procedure, with no room for lenience; 'perfect mercy' requires showing lenience from justice, so the two are fundamentally at odds.

The contradictory nature depends on what is actually meant by the adjective "perfect": it's not contradictory, if it's only meant to imply that a "perfect balance" can be struck between justice and mercy. But on their own, 'perfect justice' and 'perfect mercy' are fundamentally incompatible.

Band on the Run

Justice means something beyond legal requirements. Most people would say justice is fair. The law is frequently not fair. It protects property owners.

I am willing to state that the God of the Bible is frequently immoral. Hopefully, our notions of God have changed since ancient times. There are vast numbers of Christians who have a different take on the Bible. The Christians I know support choice and same sex marriage. There is not a dichotomy. Mainstream Christianity no longer believes the Bilble is without fault.

jgnat

Here's a puzzle, BOTR, offered by my granddaughter. A girl she knows from school is fourteen, is pregnant from a rape by a boy at school. The girl and some friends gang up on the boy at school and give him a beating. The girl is suspended. No action is taken against the boy. Why? The school administration reports that the rape was off school property. My granddaugher looks me in the eye and asks, "Now is that fair?"

You know how teenagers are about fair.

Going through my mind is the school administration, their advice from legal, and the general impotence of administrations. If I were a worker in that school, I'd be making calls to the police about this matter off school grounds. From the student's point of view, however, justice has not been done.

mrhhome

adamah, have I ever advocated following Deuteronomical law?

cofty

mrhhome - your previous statements read in context would suggest are a bigot...

Christians and atheist live their lifes differently. You can tell when you are around them. Obviously, that is a generality. You may find some Christians that are obnoxious and some atheist who try to get along with their neighbors, but statistically speaking, you are fooling yourself if you think that there is no difference between how a Christian and an atheist conduct themselves.

Fallacies about Faith

Share this