Universal Sovereignty or Why Bad Things Happen

Comatose

I've been developing this thought in my head for a few weeks. Let's address this from a theists perspective and from the perspective of our JW relatives. Here it is, let's chat on it.

Question - Can god do wrong or make a mistake? Answer - No, god can't be wrong or make a mistake. It is impossible.

Question - Okay we as humans know that. Do the angels know better than we would that god can't make a mistake or be wrong? Answer - Of course!

Question - Do even Satan and the demons know that god can't make a mistake. Answer - Well yes I suppose so. In fact the bible says he knows he has a short time left. So that would indicate he knows god is right and he is wrong.

Question - So what is being answered by god allowing suffering? Answer - Everyone else agrees god can't be wrong. God allowing this test indicates he himself acknowledges he may be wrong.

Universal Sovereignty fails as an explanation, since everyone involved knows god can't be wrong. And if one human woman fell for the lie, then there was no need to allow 6,000 years of suffering. She could have been dealt with on her own since even the devil and demons know god can't be wrong.

If you believe in Universal Sovereignty as an issue, then you believe god is petty enough to allow 6,000 years of pain and suffering without his help, and 7 billion deaths upcoming. All over an issue that everyone involved with it are in agreement on.

Comatose

Hmmmm it's not interesting or compelling as I thought... lol

tec

Well, I'm not sure that the answers to questions 2 and 3 are accurate, and the answer to question 4 depends upon those answers to 2 and 3, right?

Someone would have to refresh my memory, but isn't the jw universal sovereignty question based on proving to humans who think that they can rule better than God, that they cannot? Because if that is the case, then according to that, it is then man who would be thinking that God could be wrong. So that in the resurrection and thousand years, it has been settled and people can 'get with the program'?

I could well misunderstand the jw theology. Has been a while.

Peace to you,

tammy

prologos

one thing, many here are past the "wt-doctrine" wrong stage. but without endorsing the idea:

satan/demons tremble not because god is RIGHT,

but because god has MIGHT.

(unless he exhausted all his energy to make the universe).

clarity

Comatose...

I think it is pretty compelling ... never could figure

out, if he was the BOSS, why not do the most sensible

thing and punish the son who was causing the trouble,

the old "bright & shining star"...one! Instead of the

whole lot of mankind!

At same time, when the big bet was made, why did

god play DIRTY. Every time mankind started to improve

life or establish themselves ..... god came along & played

dirty tricks .....confused their language, had them killed,

caused a flood & drowned them, wander around lost ...etc etc...

Sounds like a dirty rat, ...according to the bible!

clarity

Laika

Like Tec I'm not convinced you would get the answers you have suggested. JW theology is that non-JW humans and demons do not recognise that God knows best.

Anyway, for the best universal sovereignty issue response, see Romans 8 -

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us

Comatose

TEC - I'd say that whether or not god was showing the angels or the humans it hasn't been answered, and can't be answered using this test.

For example, if it's just to show humans they can't, then the test hasn't been fair. God allowed the devil and demons to interact directly with humans. So anyone who thinks about it would say the issue wouldn't be answered until god let humans try without spirit interference.

Until he lets humans try to make something for themselves unhindered, the question will always be there. For the angels and humans. Could they have done it if not ruined by the debil and his cohorts.

Comatose

Okay Laika but even so, god hasn't answered that question has he?

For example, if it's just to show humans they can't, then the test hasn't been fair. God allowed the devil and demons to interact directly with humans. So anyone who thinks about it would say the issue wouldn't be answered until god let humans try without spirit interference. Humans haven't had a fair chance yet.

eyeuse2badub

Comatose---you nailed it!

"Universal Sovereignty" is another WTBTS theory that is presented as an absolute core doctrine. In other words, If the WTBTS can't explain it, they make up something as an 'explanation'. It doesn't have to be reasonable, logical, or even believable.

I'd much rather face questions that cannot be answered--than answers that cannot be questioned!

eyeuse2badub

tec

And that should be a clue as to how this universal sovereignty is not an issue/question.

If the jw understanding that universal soveriegnty is answered by leaving humans to do everything on their own... then how do they explain the gifts of God? Or the prophets? Or miracles? Or Christ, Himself? Are all of these things not interference?

Peace,

tammy

Universal Sovereignty or Why Bad Things Happen

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