by hoser 26 Replies latest jw friends
Nothing written in any publications, so it must be a "conscience matter". The typical line of reasoning would be: 'why would you want to do that since we have a superb Theocratic Ministry School to teach you public speaking?' You'd have to figure out the answer to that one.
Something to note . . . all the local Toastmaster chapters I looked into (because, yes, even yours truly once thought it would be fun to do) were operated by Pastors. Elders may frown on that. Just sayin'.
Leaving Quietly and Gopher have well captured the likely (bruised and bruising) reactions of elders who would be bothered by you seeking to go elsewhere for your public speaking skills. Ouch! You may end up feeling as if you are contemplating something of the gravity of adultery.
How could you sup with worldly people who do not care about Jehovah, when we have available for your use the Theocratic Ministry School?
Of course, after the limply aimed ammunition is fired, they will look at you with their wounded looks and say, "Of course, it is over to your Christian conscience whether you join a wordly organization to get what Jehovah is already lovingly providing you."
Hi Hoser ... sounds like necessary business to me! ;-)
>
Don't tell anyone ... just do it. Yes, I joined the group
for a short time. It is much like the TM school, only much
better material!
clarity
The reason why I would consider joining is that I could put it on a resume and it would be recognized. The tms not so much
I know an elder who is in Toastmasters.
He was also the best speaker in the circuit when I was still going.
Considering that the Weekly TMS is basically Toastmasters "Lite"...
I would question how serious one believes whether or not the end is near by joining such a club. For one thing the association would be questionable, not to mention the purpose of joining such a club which would be to network if I'm not mistaken, right? Network to do what? Exactly. An appointed brother belonging to such a club would not have freeness of speech when speaking to young ones in the congregation about the dangers of after school clubs and joining athletic teams. While I agree that it should be a conscience decision, it's definitely not a spirituality mature decision.
While I was a minsterial servant, I was also serving as President of the Toastmaster's club at my University. The networking lead to a good job when I gratuated at a top firm in the industry I was pursuing. I highly recommend the club!
SfPW is of course like the Catholic Pope: totally correct and convincing in his very own eyes.
Any decently acquiescent Witness would do well to ponder the issues raised by SfPW.
Indeed, the anonymous SfPW would do well to ponder them as well, given the wilful posting on an anti-JW website. By his "correct" reasoning, the answer to joining Toastmasters is No, but the answer to "joining" JWN is? "Yes".
The difference: It is extremely difficult being completely anonymous when you're a member of Toastmasters, whereas you can successfully join JWN, assume a confidential identity and none of your local brothers and sisters would ever know you post here.
Thank you SfPW for giving a stunningly self-revealing example of artfully devious practical-mindedness - the Pope would be proud of your moral turpitude.
QUESTIONS FROM READERS
"Is it appropriate for a Christian to join Toastmasters in light of their goals, the bad association, and puffing up of pride?"
Many conscientious ones among Jehovah's people today have wondered if Christians should own Toastmasters in view of their worldliness. What may be acceptable to one person may, although unintentionally, stumble another. This can become a life-or-death issue since to stumble a brother that Christ died for is tantamount to "putting a millstone around the neck and being thrown into the sea." Clearly our eternal salvation is involved.
There are numerous reasons why a loyal dedicated servant of God should use their Bible-trained conscience to arrive at a proper understanding of why Toastmasters is not for Christians.
Consider the following facts.
1. Satan’s wicked system of things idolizes people who are good speakers. As Christians we are to "guard ourselves from idols" and "worship no other gods". Such influence could lead to idolatry and thereby "grieve Jehovah's Spirit" with tragic consequences. May we never take for granted Jehovah's wise council!
2. The Bible does not say that Toastmasters’ membership helps us stay on the cramped path leading to everlasting life. History shows that Satan himself was a good speaker. Is that who we want to imitate? Hardly! Clearly then, as loyal Christians, why would we even want to associate with persons that are without a doubt of such bad influence, remembering that "bad associations spoil useful habits.
3. Since Toastmasters are associated with the devil, could we as faithful and dedicated servants of God therefore associate ourselves with a symbol of Satanic incarnation?
4. The scriptures clearly indicated that neither Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, faithful Job, the Apostles or Jesus himself were Toastmasters. Should we simply assume that this is a mere coincidence? Surely not! This was most likely because they didn't want to be like the Pagan contemporaries of their day who showed no regard for how God feels.
5. According to their own website, Toastmasters’ goal is to, “Ace a job interview? Ignite your career?” The Faithful and Discreet Slave TM has lovingly shown us many times that these are not fitting goals for Christians. Our very lives are at stake, brothers! If we pursue worldly goals, such as careers, or even getting a job, we may find ourselves being eaten alive by large birds in the upcoming War of Armageddon!
6. Again referring to their own website, Toastmasters’ goal is to, “develop speaking and leadership skills?” Brothers and sisters, we have a great gift in The Kingdom Ministry School, where speaking skills are taught that are known by many to be superior to a college education. Are we scorning Jehovah’s gift? Furthermore, what of the goal to “develop leadership skills”? Jehovah has lovingly provided the headship arrangement to prevent sisters from not only having leadership skills, but self-esteem itself. Brothers gain all leadership skills from the organization TM , not from filthy worldly organizations. Again, are we scorning Jehovah’s gifts?
7. Joining Toastmasters takes time and money that would be better spent in Jehovah’s service. Are we not grateful for Gods viewpoint on such matters? True worshipers follow closely Gods mandates on cleanness to their eternal benefit! Sister Toastless tells us that since quitting, she has not had to be preoccupied with attending fun meetings or developing self-confidence by public speaking. This has allowed her to spend more time for cleaning the Kingdom Hall, a task fit for spiritually-minded sisters who appreciate archaic gender-based divisions of labor.
8. The evil pagan connotations can easily be seen from the Original Greek root of the word Toastmasters, which is Toast, or “to clink together your glasses in an evil fertility ritual”. Surely Toastmasters can lead to happiness, drug use, celebrating holidays, fornication, chess playing, masturbation, wind chime owning--culminating loss of eternal life!
9. Praise you receive from fellow Toastmasters could “puff you up with pride”, leading to self esteem and critical thinking! This is clearly not for Christians, as it were.
--article courtesy of years of listening to this brainwashing nonsense, and "Are Cats for Christians?"
