Heavenly hope?

by DS211 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DS211

    Searcher i agree that you should not nor would i judge you for speaking what you believe. Jsnt there a scripture in rev 21 or 22 about the new jerusalem coming down To earth ?

  • jaydoubleu

    DS211 - you have a PM. :)

  • greendawn

    The "JW Anointed" group will definitely be considered as apostate by the JWs even if they challenged a minor doctrine and yet this is a major one. It is at least a step in the right direction since biblically there is only one class of christians and indeed there is no such thing as an earthly paradise or hope. The division of their members into heaven and earth bound and the exlusion of the latter from being members of the body of Christ (church) is the most damaging JW doctrine after the blood ban. This doctrine was formulated by Rutherford and not Russell.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    DS211 - I would not try and interpret much of the symbolic language of Revelation - I don't have that ability which many claim to have.

    My opinion is that much of what has been "explained" about Revelation by people who claim to have insight, is nothing more than an attempt to captivate people who likewise make no sense of it at this time.

    If it's not crystal clear, then it's not important for me to know just now!

  • jgnat

    I annoy my husband that tell him that of course the Witnesses can have the earth. The rest of us will be in heaven.

    He scoffs that there's not room enough in heaven for so many people. Well duh! Look up! There's a lot more room up THERE than there is down HERE.

    I once did the math to see if all JW's - and their loved ones - and those who died without the message who will get another shot at reeducation - and the worthies through the ages - could all fit on earth. They couldn't. There'd be enough room for a coffin-size spot of land each.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run


    Did you really? What was your mathematical analysis? I knew the Exodus did not happen but the post detailing the milage that is current now truly brought it home. One would think that believers would do the computation. Were our resident Exodus experts the first ones in Christianity to figure out the space that would be needed. OMG, 40 years vs. a few days. It is funny.

    This heavenly hope analysis confuses me. I read that Judaism evolved the concept of a resurrection only about one hundred years before Jesus' birth. Jews believed in a very physical resurrection on earth. A priest said it is against NT teaching to believe that we all ascend to heaven and play harps as we float around. She had no answer for where we do go. A mention that Jesus said God could raise rocks. I don't know what most Christians believe about this question.

    It does not seem very Jesus-like to have different classes in heaven or in heaven or in earth. I used to wonder if my greatgrandfather could see me taking a bath after he died. It truly distressed me. I wanted privacy from remnant members I knew. Kids are so funny. Jesus and angels -- I also did not want them looking at me.

  • anonymouz

    (Genesis 1:26-28) And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

    God cannot change "plans", because it is an original purpose, not a "plan", spoken by God himself, irreversible, hence the "seed" of Gen3:15 effects a reconnection to Gen1:26-28 by way of Rev21-22, it is a recovery of planet Earth as a whole life system, including mankind, but not limited to mankind. (Eze47:9) It is the Devil who intended to change that "God's will on earth", but as per Jesus Christ's own words, "let your Kingdom come, let your will take place on earth", earth is the target of Revelation21-22, not heaven.

    Many billions of people will end up fulfilling Genesis 1:26-28 long after Satan and his seed are long gone, and erased in an effective retroactive abortion so to speak. (Gen3:14-17). (The concept of ReGenesis as Matt19:28 to the maximum).

    That curse is removed in Rev22:1-3, that blessing is tied to the seed of God continuation through Abraham to Israel and to Christian anointed in Christ's pattern (Heb2:14) as a sampling, "out of" the twelve tribes, not the whole twelve tribes symbolic at Rev7:1-8. So the mass exodus of all humans from earth to heaven or hell is just a simplistic mythology, Genesis 1:26-28 original purpose of the Almighty God is what "will be done on earth". Jerusalem "coming down out of heaven" to earth, is how it occurs. Earth is Christ's trophy, Psalm2. Humans and animals and all creation are to be recovered and restored as all lost in that hierarchical blessing of Gen1:26-28 turned curse of Gen3:14-17.

    (Revelation 22:1-3) And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations. 3 And no more will there be any curse.

    It is the nations that are cured on earth, resuming Gen1:26-28 in last Adam Christ as per Gen12:3, 22:17-18. God does not change his mind for an angel, and much less a human. It cannot be reversed, it is the divine decree stated before all creation (Ps133) spiritual and physical, it will take place, God's sanctification requires His word being the absolute truth.

    (Romans 8:18-22) Consequently I reckon that the sufferings of the present season do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the eager expectation of the creation is waiting for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will but through him that subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now.

    The group at "anointedJW" are merely creating their own religion, snagging the many JW sheep from the weakened edges for support, and have drifted far from Biblically backed reality. JWs are the "anointedJW" target sheep to form their new movement and resource base, clearly a money making scheme as well. Bethel stumbled and confused JWs are ripe for the picking. Spiritual grifters understand this potential all too well. (2Cor11:13-15 principle).

  • DS211

    How do you know it was t referring to life on other planets? Even witnesses joke that they may one day inhabit another world....after all the earth will pass away....planets cant last forever....and what is this immortal garbage about how the anointed 144,000 will be immortal which the angels arent?

  • anonymouz

    It may be universal. Many, many, many abodes...

    (Hebrews 7:15-17) And it is still more abundantly clear that with a similarity to Melchizedek there arises another priest, 16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh, but according to the power of an indestructible life, 17 for in witness it is said: “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Melchizedek.”

    The irreversibility of the eternity of life in this universe is based on incorruptible guidance, hence indestructible because it cannot stray from divine perfection like Christ himself, like God Himself. Satan and the demons illustrate the difference in angels who are destructible, because they may be incorrupt, but as shown some did defect.

    Since Christ perfection is the basis of the whole physical and spiritual life zone (1Cor15, by God's overall purpose), mankind can never be systemically compromised again once in Christ's form as perfect man, and angels NEVER will effect such a compromise again, EVER, and that is why immortals in Christ will assure that is already the case forever, in God's will it is based on oversight of indestructible life.

    Plain and simple some heings have freewill that is shown to have possibility of corrupting. Christ cannot be corrupted, and is free but as God in will, not subject to any other will but God's. The ones of Heb2:14 will also be of the same base being of Christ as spirit, so some humans can become as Christ the perfect man form, hence last Aadm.

    Immortal incorruptible oversight guarantees no more major problems can arise. The Eze28:12 angelic anointing mission failed by angelic failure, not God, and it changes universal history of the future due to that attempt of eternal life destruction.

    That will never occur systemically again, as on planet Earth. Any infraction is removed at the point, rather than being the base of all human death, as occurred in Adam's defection with systemic effects, but as per Heb2:14 Satan is the top death dealer, also to die himself. (The Christ crushed "head" of Gen3:15 and Num24:17).

  • DS211

    so youre saying the one hope is an earthly hope. how do you explain lasarus and the rich man?

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