Isn`t the scripture at Rev.12: 12,13 Pointless ? " Woe for the earth...because the Devil has come down to you having great anger...."

by smiddy 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • anonymouz

    Contrary to popular awareness a human global government schematic appearing for the first time since Genesis 11 Nimrod "urban planning" as an outline of elite collective as a "League of Nations" (1919), and an eventual "Kingdom of God" similar anouncement of completion intent, basically at the same time in human history (1900-1930), is far more significant than it appears.

    Since Genesis 11 Nimrod managed "globalism" did in time trigger a divine intervention as a physically non-destructive language multiplication, a similar globalism hub in the League of Nations is of course in the Bible story a development that is significant as well in like principle, it just not mature enough then or now to recieve a reset intervention as per Zeph3:8-9.

    (Zephaniah 3:8-9) “‘Therefore keep yourselves in expectation of me,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘till the day of my rising up to [the] booty, for my judicial decision is to gather nations, for me to collect together kingdoms, in order to pour out upon them my denunciation, all my burning anger; for by the fire of my zeal all the earth will be devoured. 9 For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.’

    So it appears according to the Bible logic that a final globalized collective, when it reaches it's zenith, will result in another language related intervention reversing the Genesis 11 language multiplication.


    What's this got to do with Satan?

    Well in Eze 38 Satan arrives from the "remotest parts of the north", not heaven, but "heavenly places" of Eph6:12 as I guess the location of his "place no longer found in heaven" is now universal locations of deep space. In Jude 6 it is apparent the Genesis 6 angelic bachelors "forsook their own proper dwelling place", and in Gen6 context and Job 1, it appears Satan has a sort of obsession with planet earth and it's humans, and with ruling the place.

    It appears logical then a Revelation 13 sovereign continuum to Revelation 17 culminations is just a ruling system "Gog of Magog" will come to direct and protect very directly (Eze38:7), so the "League of Nations" manifestation is a sign of revisited Genesis 11 related incept globalism developments, albeit in a distributed form of centralization, with an angelic attachment to the days of Genesis 6, for ultimately the purpose of the "Dragon's throne", so it makes sense Satan had to be involved in a "seven headed" wildbeast structure (Rev13:1-15) and it's "image" as a reflection of himself as "seven headed" in organizational structure of Eph6:12.

    He may very well be bound now to universal spaces as "remotest parts of the north", and a unique world war event of 1914-1918 is also another now glossed over major event of far greater significance than is commonly realized by some in today's media jaded and historically disconnected generations, for it's own time and deployment of truly industrialized war with all top innovations directed at the technology of organized violence and murder. (Like Nimrod) And it repeated in various ways in WW2 and "cold war", and now war is the planet's biggest single business enterprise.

    If Satan came down, what kind of place would earth be? And if one listed what it would be like, well it already meets that description, but when people are well fed, housed and distracted, the reality of world war or nuclear/super-wave war is not the first thing that comes to mind, but that is exactly the infrastructure and potential that now envelopes earth as Global NATO. (and others)

    It is possible, since it all leads back to a 2-300 billion dollar elite system start-up fund generated in WW1 in 1900's dollar terms, that Satan has been taking a "hands on" approach and extra developmental aid in this last century unlike any period in human history revealed statistically in many ways as man makes a science of war on self, nature and eachother. (all vs. all, etc)

    Why would supposedly intelligent humans invest time, energy and wealth in ultimately planetary life-systemicide and self-destruction?

    And therein is the Devil in the details, in my opinion, at a scale never found previously at quite the post 1900 levels of the systematic increases in the industrialized production of death for all kinds of life on earth, not just human. Now they are just perfecting the science with greater technological enhancements and advancements.

    Then if they ever do resolve all world war (Dan8:25) for world peace (1Thess5:1-3), what then to do with all the weapons?

    Save planet earth! by mass depopulation!!!!! Will be the command SkyNet computers shall receive...... Retry...enter...

    Oh the bitter irony of fallen man...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Judaism does not believe in Satan the way most Christians do. I read a tome about it. Satan is not evil in Judaism. In fact, he is advocate for humans. Job is confusing. It perplexed me. I reread it with commentaries when I had free time. Scholars point out that the writing style of Job is starkly different. Job opens with this amoral story where God torments Job. I don't know all the references. The tone changes immediately and becomes a beauitful, moving poem. Based on my Witness background, I always found it immoral for God and Satan to bicker over a human. Job appears to be no more than pac man game for bored gods. The professor said the weird beginning is a weird beginning and raises many problems. He explains that the story of Job predates Judaism and most Canaanite groups would be familiar with the legend.

    In sharp contrast to the opening verses, the poem part describes human suffering. Job never gives up demanding an answer from God. He believes in God's goodness. His comforters or false friends visit and insist that if Job had been good to God, God would never punish him. Job swears he was as good as any human can be. Another author noted that Job can be read as a description of severe depression. When I was ill, I had my share of false comforters.

    Suddenly, God appears out of the whirlwind and addresses Job. This is a big deal. God asserts that Job has no right to question his judments. After all, God created all. If I recall correctly, it starts out with a crocodile which made me laugh. Carl Jung wrote an analysis of the Problem of Job that Job wasm ore moral than God. Jung indicts God. My reaction was to indict God.

    The NT appears to have a Satan that is pure evil. Many times he does not seem created but God's equal. Jews believe God loves humans. I am doing a poor job. All I can recall now are fragments.

    We assume that Bible writers knew the works of other Bible writers. Yet the Bible was not canonized until after John's Revelation. Indeed, many wanted Revelation to be rejected. I wrote a summary of Elaine Pagels' recent book. When the New Testament was canonized, everything that John prophecies failed to happen. Rome now as the patron of the Church. The battle John describes never happened. Certain Church Fathers, I believe Tertulian and Athansius, represented orthodox conformity. They wanted their urban churches to dominate. Suppression of rural monasteries and free thinkers were among their goals. They recast John's Revelation as a battle between one form of Christianity and the other. It was a good plug-in.

    Jesus only had access to a few books of what we now call scripture. The Torah, the major prophets, the Psalms. Don't assume that other Bible writers had access to earlier books. Christianity was very fluid. There were local scriptures. Usage varied by geographic area. I find it impossible to view the Bible as inerrant. Most of it makes no sense on a literal level. Revelation is useless in literal terms. Hopefully, other here will know what I am trying to explain and explain it a more cogent way.

    There was not a Bible as we think of it today. Christianity did not exist. Christianities existed. There is no clear outline.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    The book of Revelation was written to and for the people at that time, who were suppressed by Rome (Babylon also had suppressed God's people; Rome sat on seven hills - no imagination required).

    That's why the apocalypse ends with "I am coming soon". It shows what they were thinking at that time.


  • Bobcat

    I opined above that the true intent of Satan's ousting from heaven in Rev 12:7-12 is, not for the purpose of trapping him in the location of our planet, but to remove him from access to the heavens. Verse 10 gives the reason, "Because (Greek hoti) the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

    Several other verses (all from the old NWT) in the Bible coincide with this view:

    (John 12:31-33) . . .Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw men of all sorts to me.” 33 This he was really saying to signify what sort of death he was about to die.

    (Romans 8:31-34) . . .What, then, shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who will be against us? 32 He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things? 33 Who will file accusation against God’s chosen ones? God is the One who declares [them] righteous. 34 Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us. . .

    (Colossians 1:21, 22) . . .Indeed, YOU who were once alienated and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked, 22 he now has again reconciled by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death, in order to present YOU holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before him . . .

    The casting out of Satan has to be located after Jesus' death and resurrection. Nor is there any reason why it would have to wait until "about 1914-1918." The Romans 8 passage shows God already having made a decision that leaves no further room for an accuser.

  • Crazyguy

    Jesus said right before his death that "Now Satan will be cast out". The book of Job was mentioned and that book seems to be a focus on how Job does not have the right to really question god, not as to a bet between satan and god. The book of Revelation is a bit harder to figure out but those that seem to have a Peterist idea about the book being written for the 1 century may very well be correct.

    Theres is things in the book that seem to refure to Rome, Jerusalem, and the politiacal things going on at the time. Also if one consideres the idea that the book of Revelation may have been written around 60ce and not later as most have said this idea has a lot more merit and yes there is a lot of evidence that the book was written early then first believed. One thing to remember is at the time of the writing of Timothy not all scriptures were canonized yet and were not the scriptures that were refured to as being inspired. I believe only the early writings of the phrophets were the ones refured to as being inspired and even the jews today break up thier scriptures or book into 3 sections.

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