THE GROUP vs the reality of the group=A CULT

by Terry 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry

    Basic principle of rational thinking:

    What man can TEST against REALITY he can disprove!

    What man cannot TEST against REALITY he cannot.



    Collectivism holds that, in human affairs, the collective—(the Society)—is the unit of reality and the standard of value. On this view, the individual has reality only as part of the group, and value only insofar as he serves it.

    Collectivism holds that the individual has no rights, that his life and work belong to the group . . . and that the group may sacrifice him at its own whim to its own interests.

    Governing Body :

    " Collectivism maintains that an elite endowed with special mystic insight should rule men—which implies the existence of an elite source of knowledge, a fund of revelations inaccessible to logic and transcending the mind. " Ayn Rand


    The cult as a Group lays claim two two vital virtues: morality and reason, while simultaneously demonstrating the very opposite in its actions and policies. By co-opting actual virtues and hollowing them of true definitions, the cult steals concepts and REDEFINES the meaning of words to hi-jack them as propaganda.


    A wolf disguised in sheep's clothing is still a wolf. A lie disguised in a different costume is still a lie.

    For example: When a JW uses the words:THE TRUTH what he is really thinking is "my religion" the original concept has been stolen!


    Cult collectivism does not preach sacrifice as a temporary means to some desirable end. Sacrifice is its only end—sacrifice as a way of life. It is man’s independence, success, prosperity, and happiness that collectivists wish to destroy. How? Replacing slavish ritual behaviors instead!

    Survival itself is linked solely to connection to Groupthink. Everyone must share the same thoughts.

    How is this achieved?


    All true knowledge comes from reality. Knowledge describes reality without contradicting it.

    Direct perception and personal experience are extracted by the human's rational mind and compared with

    reality. When the two match without dissonance, truth is declared.


    How does the CULT SUBVERT rational thinking?

    The cult member is denied access to knowing the difference between physical and metaphysical.

    A. Members are told that flesh and blood aren't of any value but spirit is superior in worth.

    B. Members are mentally isolated from the natural action of their own mind to perceive, abstract and decide. Instead, mere observance of arbitrary whims, rules and policies are declared mandatory.

    3.Trust in the group is elevated above personal skeptical review, analysis, A/B comparison and outside sources.

    A. Skeptical review is fleshly, therefore corrupt; instead "faith" connects to the invisible powers that matter.

    B.The cult leaders use the very concepts they disparage when "proving" their "truths", i.e. logic, rationalism, reasons, common knowledge, quoting scientists, doctors, religious authorities when it suits them.

    C. The difference between existence and consciousness is broken loose and turned upon itself. Thus, heaven, resurrection and spirit become the whim of the supernatural divorced from organic health and life itself.



    In short, the cult member is torn away from real life on a real planet in physical reality for a very good reason.

    What is the reason?

    What man can TEST against REALITY he can disprove!

    What man cannot TEST against REALITY he cannot.



    The spirit realm, spirituality, heaven, God, etc. are UNTESTABLE and not subject to comparison with reality.

    The CULT LEADERS can say anything they want and nobody can challenge them by actual demonstrable facts.

    This artificial invincibility allows CULTS to award something science can never compete with:


    This absolute condition of "knowing" you are right and everybody else is wrong, is intoxicating, exhilarating and

    almost impossible to let go of!

    Once you are hooked, you will mainline the rest of your life as you become detached more and more from

    the real world, life itself, true friends, and a purpose worth living for.

    Your only actual reward: PERMANENT PROBATION.

    One little slip and you are doomed to be excluded from your drug (certainty) and the group itself

  • scotoma

    We are all born into a cult. It's called F-A-M-I-L-Y.

    Fathers are the ultimate thug leaders.

    Women picked the biggest guys with the biggest shoulders to mate with.

    They needed big guys, not to work hard and provide food, but to make sure the women and children would be protected from other males.

    Males are not real good at providing food. The women hunter gatherers were in charge of that.

    The men mostly sharpened their knives and spears and drank fermented beverages, halucinogenic mushrooms, and psychoactive herbs at "elder" meetings.

    That's why the biggest competitor to cult-organizations is the family.

    The Watchtower is always battling families with its disfellowshpping policies.

    Family cults seem to be an evolutionary necessity. Organizational cults like gangs are just big families and not needed.

  • Terry

    I would disagree.

    Family can be dysfunctional. Yet, compared with what? Compared to non-dysfunctional.

    Non-dysfunctional (or "normal") family works to improve the conditions and opportunities of its members rather than to suppress.

    How many parents are heard to say, "I want my children to have the things I never had."?

    This is the very opposite of a CULT because cult-thinking is collective and members have no value outside of what they perform

    solely for the maintanence of the collective.

    Parents may sacrifice for their children motivated by their valuations of what prospects for a better life might result. In this instance,

    the sacrifices might well be seen as an "investment" in the future.

    In a collective, the automatic condition of sacrificial animal is assigned because you must put your own ambitions and talents on hold to further

    the group and have no prospects left for self-betterment.

  • scotoma


    The concept of improving conditions and opportunities for family members was not the dominant aim for the hundreds of thousands of years of history.

    There was no concept of the "good life". There was only "life".

    It was about basic survival. Men beat their rivals to death to protect their offspring. And when their offspring grew up to challenge them they would beat them to death if they infringed on their territory.

    The mere idea of "wanting things for your offspring you never had" is a thuggish agenda because they would have to take things from the weak.

    What things would a hunter gatherer want for their kids that they never had?

    Lifespan was about 30 years for most of human history.

    The aim was to simply stay alive. A brutish father that had to physically struggle for his position in the extended family hierarchy would probably consider his

    own children as competitors.

    We enjoy a great life in the US because we are members of a very successful collective that has dominated all the others.

    The reason cults emerge is because people who survived these last million years evolved in a milieu of graybacks and their coalitions.

    Sociability is a blessing and a curse.

  • scotoma


    I should have asked you what you disagree with.

    I agree with your statement "One little slip and you are doomed to be excluded from your drug (certainty) and the group itself"

    My basic premise just elaborates on what you said ie. we are conditioned to be in cults because of the historically authoritarian structure of the family.

    Our family is our O-G that got us dependent on the family drug.

    People need to grow out of the dependency on family.

    The demand for unconditional love is unrealistic. I have never met anyone who loved me unconditionally. There are always benefits to the other person whether monetary or emotional.

    When the benefits stop - the love stops.

    It's called a transaction. A social transaction.

    If you love your family more than yourself you are doomed.

    If your JW family loves their "new family" more than they do you then it's time to move on.

    Many have done that. This forum is really a JW Annonymous. It's a place where we can get off the dependency drug.

    So, basically I'm saying I agree with YOU. And, agree with you that collectivism, like any -ism, is probably more bad then good. We just have to be cautious about affiliating with any kind of group whether for a living, special interest, therapeutic etc.

    Once we know our own identity we will know when there is synergy between our identity and the group's purpose.

    Family should be a place where you learn your identity. Unfortunately, we have these giant people running our lives and oftentimes our individual temperaments are different from these "giant authorities" and

    we make poor adaptations to them and bury our core identity.

  • Terry

    The reality of each group is what I wish to focus on.

    All groups are not alike.

    When a group demands loyalty we have to ask, "At what cost to the individual?"

    This is the question I want to focus upon because of the logical fact there can exist no group without individuals.

    Survival by your intelligence, talent, wit and resourcefulness can produce one of two results:

    1.The one producing the positive result acquires benefit, ownership and control.

    2.The one producing the positive result is prevented from acquiring benefit, ownership or control BECAUSE of the GROUP.

    The extraordinary progress of the United States through industry, technology, innovation, investment and advancement in medicine, science

    and freedom can directly be traced to rugged individualists.

    For a brief while (not very long) unfettered Capitalism (not mixed economy) allowed innovators to create and own/control great wealth.

    Then, politicians stepped in to wet their beaks and mixed economy commenced.

    Laws were passed the wealthy business owners had to PAY to obtain a way around (legislation.) Presto! Lobbying began.

    But, that is a huge digression I'd rather take up in a separate Topic.

    Bottom line?

    Collectives which are pernicious squeeze the most talented to fuel the non-talented under the banner of some trumped up "greater cause."

    The birth of a cult is CONTROL and the demand for LOYALTY under the phony pretense (whatever and however it is stated.)

    1. Are members of the group allowed to voice loyal opposition in any provided venue without being punished?

    2. Can the member of the group control or own what they invent, create or produce? Or is it automatically awarded to the group?

    3. Is the member made to feel insignificant? Is the group held to be of far more value than the individual?

    4. How much self-sacrifice is required?

    5. Are leaders of the group set apart as an elite with special distinctions?

    6. What is the worst consequence of leaving the group?

    The more drastic your answers the closer you are to approaching what I mean to identify as CULT.

  • scotoma


    I cross posted. I think we really agree, don't you?

    I don't trust any group that would accept me as a member. _Marx- Groucho Marx that is.

  • scotoma

    I want to add something for clarification. There is a difference between a collective or organization and the political concept of "collectivism".

    Cooperative effort does mean you make your talents available to the group. However, if they don't accept what you feel is your best contribution then its a bad fit.

    The trouble with religion is that it comes on like the only game in town. There IS a marketplace.

  • Terry

    Political power beyond providing for the National Defense quickly encroaches on the individual and usurps local states' rights.

    Intrusion of the state by force is highly problematic.

    The Federal bureaucrat (politicians) can't escape being wasteful, clumsy, incompetent, over-reaching and coercive when "controling" business, health, education, etc.

    The best intentions in the world have never changed the outcome.

    Nationalizing anything is disastrous.

    When does the state become a cult? Ask the millions (if not billions) of Chinese who starved under Chairman Mao following his 5 Year Plan.

    Stalin murdered millions of his own people and yet the Soviet citizens stood in slow-moving, endless lines at his funeral to gaze lovingly upon his corpse and shed emotional tears of sorrow. Now THAT is a cult.

    The illusion/delusion of solidarity in a cult can only be realized by determining what hidden threat of force lies behind it.

  • Oubliette


    As always, a thought-provoking read.

    Have you read Ayn Rand's novella, "Anthem"?

    You might enjoy it.


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