The Great Grandmother Tragedy - New video on YouTube

by RayPublisher 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    Thank you RayPublisher for calling attention on JWN to the heart-breaking, “Grandmother Tragedy.”

    I'm a grandmother who hasn't seen her grandson in over twelve years. In September he was fourteen-years old. We last saw him when he was two. This is the way I was punished for going public about the cover-up of child sexual abuse in the JW religion. And my husband disciplined for supporting me.

    If that isn't sad enough, back around 2011 a former JW contacted us when he and his wife moved to Tennessee. He said that at one time they had been in the same congregation with our son and his family in Northern Indiana but had moved away around 2002 or so. During the phone conversation that ensued, he offered his sympathy that we couldn't see our grandchildren because of our being disfellowshipped. I said, "Grandchildren? We only have one grandchild, Luke." The reply to my protestation was, "No, you have two grandchildren. We stopped at your son's home back in 2006 when we were in the area visiting with some of our family, and there was a little girl maybe around two-years old playing with Luke, your grandson, in the yard. During our conversation, Lance said that his family kept him so busy that he had resigned as an elder.”

    Later, Joe and I talked about this news that we had another grandchild. We came to the conclusion that the man was mistaken about the little girl being our grandchild because when we spoke briefly to our son on the phone in 2006 to tell him that his grandmother, my mother, had died, he said “NO,” he didn’t have any other children when Joe specifically asked him if he had any more kids. So when we heard about a small child playing in the yard at our son’s home back in 2006, we reasoned that maybe they were babysitting for one of the children of our daughter-in-law’s sisters. We were so sure our son would not lie to us.

    However, a few months ago, quite by accident, I saw a recent photo of our son and his wife with their two children, a girl that looked about eight, and Luke, on the Internet. We think that Luke looks much like me at that age and his sister (we don't know her name), looks like her mother.

    Many years ago our son asked us not to put a photo we had of our grandson on the Internet. We agreed. However, it doesn’t seem like it’s a big deal now that he put a photo of his children on the Internet, on a site called “LinkedIn” for all his friends and business associates to see, so we are posting the photo here on JWN. We are proud to have such engaging grandchildren and want to show them off to our friends. If this is the only way we can do it, then so be it. Barbara and Joe

    Lance Anderson and his family.

    Lance Anderson and his family.

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    RayPublisher: 'THE ELDERS CAN DF YOU FOR ANYTHING if they want to'

    That is not an exaggeration, it is a fact!

    I often hear elders comment on incidences of other disfellowshipping cases where they know of the facts and too many times their opinion is that the decision to df was wrong!

    In other words is was just the whimsey whim of the committee to df the poor sole where understanding, mercy, kindness and compassion could have been shown.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses practice of Disfellowshipping and Shunning is as the title of this thread puts it .......a tragedy!

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    Thank you so much for sharing Barbara.

    I want to thank Daniel L. Hall again because he wrote the section in his book...all I did was read it on camera!

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Barbara and Joe, I am having a difficult time putting into words what to say after reading the above post.

    The best I can do is...................I am soo sorry!

    I have the deepest respect for you two and for what you have had to live with. May Godspeed!

  • clarity
    clarity

    Barbara & Joe .... what JWgonebad said ... me too!

    >

    The bloody gall!

    >

    >

    Thanks for putting that up Ray ... so many unnatural commands

    with JW's and the Mormons.

    clarity

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Video Description: Why would such a terrible thing be done? It is because of the Mormon Church and Watchtower Society’s harsh shunning policies. Some Jehovah’s Witnesses have used this terrible doctrine as a weapon against their own parents and it is a tragedy and a horrible loss for all sides. Once a person is indoctrinated into a cult, they will even turn on their own family members and this is one example of it in action.
    -------------

    Yes, except that the “Mormon Church” doesn’t have a shunning policy, harsh or otherwise. Daniel LeEarl Hall does not pretend to be objective or even to simply be reporting an incident. Instead, with no references whatsoever, he throws the Mormons into the same basket as the Jehovah's Witnesses, not only in regards to shunning, but of being a “manmade religion” and of being a cult, to boot! And though Hall may be correct about the Jehovah's Witnesses and its shunning policies, it he is incorrect in adding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the list.

    Hall makes it clear that he’s an evangelical Christian, and it’s been my experience that many of these people who see it as their duty to expose “cults” (as they view them) actually employ many the same cult-like tactics they accuse others of, especially when it comes to stretching the truth for Christ.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses publish their doctrine on shunning to all the world because they admit it right up front. It’s a tactic to keep people active (or else). The Latter-day Saints, however, are people, like anyone else, and if shunning occurs, it’s because of the individual members—not because it’s a church policy or even encouraged by the church. This means that every instance must be viewed on a case-by-case basis. For example, if I had children I was raising in the church, and grandma was actively interfering by attempting to plant doubt or sow the seeds of contention among my children, yes, I may limit contact to times where either my wife or I could monitor the contacts. But wouldn’t evangelicals do the same if grandma was an outspoken atheist and was attempting to subvert their parenting?

    Other LDS families may have their reasons for keeping granny at bay, but the church as an organization has no official policy on shunning except to avoid it whenever possible. How can one love someone and shun? How can someone forgive and shun? Since love and forgiveness are key Christian components, ritualistic shunning would be counter to Christianity.

    The problem with Daniel Hall is that he’s a hypocrite. I know full well he wouldn’t want his own children to be torpedoed by anyone in the family, and, in the words of the Chad Mitchell Trio, “If mommy is a commie, then you’ve got to turn her in!” I’m not saying that shunning doesn’t go on in the LDS church, but I am saying that it’s not ritualized as it is by the Jehovah's Witnesses, nor is it encouraged.

    Apparently, if one is a Jehovah's Witnesses, he or she can be disfellowshiped for not shunning someone. This is also true about the Amish. But why didn’t Hall add the Amish to his text instead of the Mormons? I submit it’s because it did not fit his own twisted agenda.

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    @ Cold Steel - I am not a mormon nor ever was. I am trying to do some research on this topic. Wiki says this:

    ---------------

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS Church"; see also Mormonism) practices excommunication as penalties for those who commit serious sins, i.e., actions that significantly impair the name or moral influence of the church or pose a threat to other members. The LDS Church also practices the lesser sanctions of private counsel and caution, informal probation, formal probation, and disfellowshipment.

    ---------------------

    And PBS.org under the heading "Mormons" says this:

    ---------------------

    What are the reasons for the church taking disciplinary action, or even excommunicating a member?

    A 1990 article offered on the church's Web site lists the following reasons for convening a disciplinary council: "… abortion, transsexual operation, attempted murder, rape, forcible sexual abuse, intentionally inflicting serious physical injuries on others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, child abuse (sexual or physical), spouse abuse, deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities, robbery, burglary, theft, sale of illegal drugs, fraud, perjury, or false swearing."

    In addition, "disciplinary councils must be held in cases of murder, incest or apostasy." Apostasy is defined by the church's General Handbook of Instructions as teaching or following incorrect doctrines or "repeatedly act[ing] in clear, open and deliberate public opposition to the church or its leaders."

    Excommunication is the most severe punishment that a church disciplinary council can hand down against a member. Disfellowshipment is a punishment just short of excommunication in which a member remains part of the church but may not enter the temple, hold leadership roles, receive sacraments or perform priestly duties. Lesser disciplinary actions are private caution and informal or formal probation.

    Excommunication results in a member's name being removed from the church records and disfellowshipment; an excommunicated member may not wear temple undergarments or tithe to the church, and the member's temple sealings to spouse and children are suspended.

    Excommunicated members may rejoin the church after repenting and undergoing re-baptism.

    http://www.pbs.org/mormons/faqs/controversies.html

    ----------------------

    And this on Yahoo answers:

    (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110715124759AAECJ7L)

    ----------------------

    You can be put on probation, informally or formally. You can be disfellowshipped. You can be excommunicated. Sometimes it is announced from the pulpit, often not.

    If you live in a rural Utah community, you can lose all your customers, business partners, friends and family, but that varies a lot.

    (Ruth, there is now a process for sending in a letter to get your name removed from the rolls. It was instigated after some court cases. I remember the days before when we were told to request our own excommunication if we decided the church was a fraud.)

    ----------------------

    However another Mormon says almost the opposite:

    --------------------------

    We are not supposed to shun anyone, though many ex-members say they are. Many people erroneously think that when a person is excommunicated they are no longer welcome at church. This is not true, they are not only welcome, but are encouraged to continue to attend church and participate in activities while they work to repent and regain membership. I have one friend who was excommunicated, had no desire to be re-baptized but very actively attended church.

    We don't do anything to people who leave the church. If someone is my friend they will continue to be my friend whether they belong to the same religion as me or not.

    More often than not, I notice that it's the people who leave the Church that are the ones who do the shunning, by indicating they don't want anything more to do with not only the Church but the members as well.

    -------------------------

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Thanks, Publisher. All this information jives with my experience. I've found it's most often the people who leave the church who then snub (not shun) members.

    I've read the bitterness of the ex-JWs on this board and I imagine the same bitterness resides in the hearts of ex-Mormons. It's the notion that they've been deceived, and they resent it. It's a source of embarrassment to them. Instead of going their own way, they set up and attend "ex-Mo" conferences and write books. It's as if they have a score to settle, and this is very human...not ecclesiastical.

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    But it does appear that a fair number of active Mormons shun/exclude former members.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    So Here I pop up again...I wonder why I am called Mouthy?
    I am sorry really as my daughter (JW) called me for the first time in ages
    the other day to tell me her hubby ( not a JW) is dying.I hope she never sees
    this thread or book

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit