"Faithful and Discreet Servant" Changes in RNWT (Matt 24)

by adamah 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • adamah
    adamah

    I see the WTS has now removed the reference to Jesus' rendering punishment of death by sword, when the master returns and finds the evil servant abusing the other slaves; they've sanitized the reading of Matt 24:51 as this:

    51 "and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be."

    They're following the lead of a few other translations that have already swept the evidence under the rug of Jesus' endorsement of slavery, being allowed to kill a slave for not pleasing his master by carrying out his wishes:

    http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-51.htm

    Compare for yourself, above.

    To do so, they ignored the Greek word dichotomēsei which means, "cuts in half". They add the word "his" to suggest the slave is alive, when the original Greek said that OTHERS would grieve his death, since the standard way to grieve was for survivors to weep and gnash THEIR teeth. Accurate translation, my arse!

    Yet another example of how lying scribes do anything to "lie in the name of God and Jesus".

    Adam

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Yeah...dichotomesei only occurs twice in the NT, and it never means severely punished. Strong's does say " perhaps scourge severely." Perhaps an unknown Bible "scholar" has said it can mean "severely punished." Maybe it's the same guy who said that the faithful slave turning evil was hypothetical? If it's a hypothetical punishment, then who cares anyway? They could have said the slave would be tickled to death.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Adam: Puhleez:

    It is not "accurate translation my arse" - it is "accurate translation my DONKEY". Keep up with jehoobie's chariot, it turns on a dime.

    Read the noolite about Jesus riding into Jerusalem. The eye witnesses got that animal badly wrong.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    There is virtually no change in this verse apart from removing brackets. I struggle to see your point.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I am looking at the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, 1969 (purple) edition.

    The Greek words read:

    and he will cut asunder him and the part of him with the hypocrites he will place; there will be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

    the translation next to it reads:

    and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    your punishment

    --sd-7

  • prologos
    prologos

    I would be gnashing my teeth too if I would be cut asunder.

    severe, "cruel and unusual punishment" as they would say in the USofA.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Data dog said-

    Yeah...dichotomesei only occurs twice in the NT, and it never means severely punished. Strong's does say " perhaps scourge severely." Perhaps an unknown Bible "scholar" has said it can mean "severely punished."

    'Dichotomesei' is the same root where the word 'dichotomy' comes from, indicating a separation into two (uni-, di-, tri-, etc) i.e. a fork in the road; more analogous to the old concept of punishment of 'drawn and quartering', where they tied the limbs of a person around a rope and tied the other end to a horse, and split the person apart.

    Pulpit Commentary offers this:

    Pulpit Commentary Verse 51. - Shall cut him asunder διχοτομήσει ). This mode of death was inflicted in some cases (see 1 Samuel 15:33; 2 Samuel 12:31; Daniel 3:29; Hebrews 11:37; compare also the account of the execution of Mettius in Livy, 1:28; and Horace, 'Sat.,' I. 1:99). Thus in our own country "quartering," after hanging at least, was once a usual penalty for some offences, such as high treason. The term has been here interpreted to refer to the operation of the cruel scourge, which without metaphor might be said to cut a man to pieces; or "to dismiss from his employment," which seems to be hardly an adequate punishment. The difficulty is that the utter destruction of the malefactor implied in his literal cutting asunder is not consistent with his subsequent consignment to the lot of the hypocrites. Hence the Fathers have variously explained the term to signify separation from the company of saints, or from spiritual grace, or from all the blessings promised to the righteous. But we may take the Lord's words as applying first to temporal punishment - the unrighteous steward shall suffer death as horrible as dichotomy, a severance of body and soul, accompanied with unspeakable tortures; as in the History of Susanna, ver. 55, "The angel of God hath received the sentence of God to cut thee in two." Appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. The Lord drops the parable, and speaks of the terrible reality. The hypocrites are the faithless and deceitful, who, while pretending to do their lord's work, are mere eye servants, and really neglect and injure it. The remissful steward shares their punishment in the other world. There ( ἐκεῖ ) shall be, etc.; i.e. in the place where the hypocrites receive their punishment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 22:13; Matthew 25:30). The expression signifies measureless grief and despair.

    Gill's offers this:

    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And shall cut him asunder,.... The Persic version renders it, "he shall separate him from himself": he shall separate soul and body by death; he shall take away all his gifts and talents from him; and remove him from his place and office, and from the church of God, and communion of the saints, and out of this world. Some think the allusion is to the cutting up of the sacrifices, and dividing them into pieces; and the sense is, that this wicked servant should have no share in the sacrifice of Christ; but should fall himself a victim to divine justice, and be used as sacrifices were; or, in other words, be severely punished for his sins; though the allusion seems rather to be to the manner of punishing treacherous and unfaithful persons, by dismembering them, cutting them in pieces, or in two: and so the Arabic version renders it, "he shall cut him in the middle": this was certainly a way of putting persons to death; though some say it was not known to the Jews; but the following instances show the contrary.

    Mention is made of some that were sawn asunder, Hebrews 11:37 and the Jews say (b), that Isaiah was sawn asunder by Manasseh; and such a kind of death is spoken of in the Targum (c); where it is said, that "the priests went before Mordecai, and proclaimed, saying, whoever does not salute, or wish prosperity to Mordecai, and to the Jews, "he shall be cut into pieces", and his house be made a dunghill. And elsewhere (d) it is said of a wicked man, that they put him upon a carpenter's block, and , "sawed him asunder"; and he cried out, woe, woe, woe, that I have provoked my Creator. This was also a punishment used among the Heathens, as Gataker (e), and others out of Heathen writers, have shown. It must not here be understood literally, that this wicked servant should be put to such a corporeal death; but that he should be punished in the severest manner, and should be the object of the fierce wrath and sore displeasure of God, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites.

    Of course, anytime Jesus says anything that's horrifying, it cannot be taking as if meant it literally, EVEN THOUGH Jesus warned of condemning souls to eternal hellfire for rejecting him and his "gift".... THEN it's literal....

    Gill continues:

    Luke says, "with the unbelievers" Luke 12:46, very likely both phrases were used by Christ; intimating, that such as make a profession of him, and have only a form of godliness, without the power of it, and are wicked and hypocritical men, will share the same fate with those that believe not; and the portion of these is the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; see Revelation 21:8 or all such persons are intended, who put on the mask of religion, and do not answer to the character they bear: and are unfaithful to the trust reposed in them, and therefore will made examples of righteous judgment, and have their part in the lowest hell: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. See Gill on Matthew 13:42.

    (b) T. Hieros. Sanhedrin, fol. 28. 3. & T. Bab. Yebamot, fol. 49. 2.((c) Targum in Esther 8.15. (d) Bereshit Rabba, sect. 65. fol. 58. 4. (e) Adversaria, p. 455.

    Maybe it's the same guy who said that the faithful slave turning evil was hypothetical? If it's a hypothetical punishment, then who cares anyway? They could have said the slave would be tickled to death.

    That warning applies to the OTHER evil slaves, who are spreading false teachings! Remember, Jesus appointed a multitude of head slaves (which he forgot to mention, BTW), and he'll dash those OTHER guys to death. But not the GB.

    SBF said-

    There is virtually no change in this verse apart from removing brackets. I struggle to see your point.

    Yeah, you're right: I see that it wasn't a NEW change here, but something they've rolled out before the RNWT in the "classic" NWT.

    Still, the broader point still stands, in that such changes in translations occur at the speed of the movement of land mass plates butting up against another continent, and although slow, changes are perceptible over the course of one's lifetime.

    Faithfulwitness said-

    I am looking at the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, 1969 (purple) edition.

    The Greek words read:

    and he will cut asunder him and the part of him with the hypocrites he will place; there will be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

    And would that part of him be the upper half or lower half? Which half gets placed where the hypocrites are?

    Adam

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Don't the brackets indicate words that have been added or changed? Removal of the brackets, does not allow the reader to know which words were added vs. Words that were supposedly already there.

    When you look at the Greek text, and realize that they changed the words, then removed the brackets that show you where they made a change, it is interesting to note. They love to bicker over articles and personal pronouns, to try to prove their point. This is just one of many inaccuracies. It's a straw.

    Do they use this verse to dispute the existence of eternal punishment?

    Changing the wording from "the gnashing of teeth," to "his gnashing of teeth," does change the meaning.

    Let the reader use discernment. Removal of the brackets is a change. A big enough change? Let the reader use discernment.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    In all fairness, the brackets were another example of the old NWT's overly scrupulous renderings. Translators normally understand that they will need to rephrase things, and that literal word-for-word renderings are not necessarily good translations, thus most Bibles do not use brackets even when they take more liberties than the NWT does.

    The removal of brackets that were previously there naturally feels like the GB is trying to cover over something, but the fact is that it's never been so simple to investigate the NWT's accuracy as to just look for the brackets; real study of commentaries and comparison of translations has always been required in order to recognize and understand the decisions made by the NWT Bible Committee, and that hasn't changed. The removed brackets could be considered in line with their stated goal of streamlining the text, as they created a visual interruption or distraction for the reader.

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