The relationship between the Father and Son. What's your opinion?

by DATA-DOG 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Monsieur

  Data dog

  You are still commiting the mistake of personifying 'God'.

  This is why your comprehension of the relationship between Father and Son is so convoluted.

  In attempting to decipher this relationship in terms of actual, real, and humanly physical experiences (in spite of your assertion that youo do it 'spiritually') your mind loses its logical thread and you are left right where you began, square one.

  In another one of your threads I offered that 'God' is a symbol, not an ACTUAL person sitting on a throne in heaven.

  Decipher the meaning of the symbol that is 'God', and your questions are thoroughly and satisfyingly answered. Once you do this, once you comprehend the true and absolute meaning of 'God' you will begin to 'see with the spiritual eyes'.

  Here is a tip when it comes to 'understanding' the knowledge of God , if something isn't real and provable, then it must be symbolic of something that IS.
• 

  Fernando

  Great post, DATA-DOG.

  "The physical teaches us about the spiritual, but the spiritual takes precedent."

  Exactly, the physical is but a (3D) shadow (w52 7/15 pp. 437-445) of higher dimensional (4D+) spiritual realities.

  So the physical does give as an opportunity to reflect at some depth on the spiritual. Add the "free gift" of faith to the mix and we are able to discern more as you have above.

  Personally my focus is on the unabridged gospel (word or message) which the prophets proclaimed and which became flesh and dwelled amongst us in human and visible form, as the ultimate show casing and revelation of this message.

  Intriguing too is that the prophets it seems knew both the message and the person:

  "Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. (NIV, 1 Peter 1:10,11).

  Greetings and blessings

  Fernando
• 

  Band on the Run

  So may others have tried to articulate the relationship that I am certain I cannot do better. It seems to me that fundamentalists, such as the Witnesses, take God too literally. God is not an old man named YHWH. I hope God is more. I like the strand that God cannot be conceived of in human terms. We can only try to conceive of God without ever realizing the goal.

  So much appears to be cultural. The Witness view is drastically different from the vast majority of Christian formulations. It demotes Jesus.

  The language is unclear. I believe this is purposeful. Believers can only grope at any understanding. The litury speaks of a God which passeth all understanding.

  It also strikes me that understanding the relationship is not necessary. Since I an neither Father nor Son, I do not know.
• 

  DS211

  DatA dog---dont the scriptures say that no mane knows the full relationship between the Father and son? I cant remember the scripture butwhen i rea. It i was like "bloody hell this goes against the material realm the WT keeps us in...the earthly hope= all physical and not spiritual, Jesus divinity is somethin spiritua which the watchers try to obscure passages to hide the simple truth they dont want to admit....we dont know everything, God didnt give us his word to figure everything out, otherwise where is hope and faith? Anyway im strayin off topic mate but just my two centS. I do agree with a lot you said though
• 

  warehouse

  What an excellent thread. It's really late where I am, too late to get into a serious discussion, but I thought I'd just throw these two scriptures out there, and see what everyone thinks of them:

  • John 17 (yes, the entire 26 verses)
  • Hebrews 5:1-10

  I'll post my own thoughts tomorrow after the annual meeting . . . lol, if anyone is even cares then.
• 

  designs

  John Calvin was one of several Reformers who saw a connection with Jesus/Michael.
• 

  tornapart

  Agree wholeheartedly DD!!
• 

  FrankieGoesToHollywood

  Well, a human is made up of a Body, mind (the I) and spirit.

  Perhaps The Father Son relation is something similar. You can´t seperate one entity from another!
• 

  Terry

  I gave up on thinking I could understand anything concerning "God."

  Why in the world would I think it possible?

  Reducing a complexity down to a soundbyte is, frankly, mindless.

  And another thing...take the idea behind the Trinity. What makes a Trinitarian or a non-Trinitarian inferior or superior to one another?

  Words? Neither position is knowledge. If you were drowning and a person who believed the opposite of you jumped in to save you--would

  you decline the help?

  Nonsense.

  God is portrayed as so "needy." Wouldn't you think "self-sufficient" would be more to the point?

  Surrounding yourself with an entourage that continually exclaims, "Holy, holy, holy.." smacks of insecurity or hubris. How does that satisfy?

  All the God ideas and descriptions we have--particularly in Scripture--are poorly imagined by under-educated, pre-Enlightenment mortals. Why

  would i want to contaminate my thinking by their insufficient vocabulary?

  The most disgusting aspect of Judeo-Christian-Muslim religious "wisdom" about God is this. NO WOMEN!

  Tell me why God must be "Male" and what in the hell that could even mean. A spirit with a penis and testicles? Give me a break.

  Jesus is God's "son?" Why no daughters?

  Why were the angels in heaven MALES when they are spirits? How could an asexual spirit be attracted to the daughters of men and want

  to have intercourse with them? How did a spirit come up with a human body unless they CREATED one just like God could do?

  You see? All of these things are so ignorant and irrational and just plain kindergarten level stupid--I don't bother with them any longer.

  Your mileage may vary, however.
• 

  designs

  I'm sticking with Thor