By the pricking of my thumbs....

Xander

...some ancient wisdom this way comes?

Pulling over from another thread...

I'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the JWs. Or, perhaps, before joining.

I'm curious what experiences have been had. Obviously, the JWs teach anything remotely supernatural is demonic. Would those who worked such things agree? Or are you merely witnessing your own preconceptions when something happens? Or is some other force present?

Etc.

(EDIT: AAARRRGHHHH - made the title plural...geez, can't even type properly...)

Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

meat pie

Yes, I had tried out seances as a teenager, got some fairly convincing results. Lived in a spooky house as a child, but a much MUCH spookier house later, '87-'91. I mentioned some of it to other witnesses, they usually were a bit scared and didn't want me to talk about it, said it would encourage the demons to talk about them, or maybe they just thought I was nuts.Well I really think I did go nutty at the time and who knows which came first the chicken or the egg? I started studying with JWs in 1995, and I was relieved that they did at least appear to believe me.Thay told me to make sure I had nothing that anyone involved in anything 'spiritistic'had given me, I said my husband had a set of tarot cards, I was told to look for them and destroy them even though they weren't mine, but that I probably wouldn't be able to find them. No I didn't find them, but they weren't mine to destroy. Don't forget that people used to stand outside cinemas to warn of the demons in the film 'The Exorcist'. Also many people still believe even the actual material the film was made on is demon posessed. I do think that JWs take this far too far, and instill a superstition-like fear in themselves and others which is hard to shake off.

LDH

Nope. And Horror flicks don't interest me at all.

Lisa

og

I tried out tarot, and the I Ching. It was frustrating. I came to feel that something directs divination methods like these, but whatever that something is, it is only intermittently interested in me. Its agenda was not my agenda. Otoh, I certainly felt no sinister presence, just a benign indifference. And I do not rule out some interaction wtih the unconscious, rather than something specifically supernatural.

I dabbled partially to get rid of that feeling of being a witness still. I also smoked a few cigars (something I still do on occasion, played poker and slots, and checked out some porn. I think you have to be your own authority for everything, including the supernatural.

Love the new pic Xander. Spooky.

SYN

Personally, I don't hold with anything that smacks of superstition. The house I stay in is rumoured by the other people who live here to be haunted, but I walk around *in the dark* here all the time, and nothing's happened to me so far.

Nor have I ever felt any *presence* of the type being discussed here.

Perhaps tarot cards and the like are influenced by the minds of the people using them? Certainly I wouldn't trust something like an Ouija (SP?) board, because HUMAN HANDS spin that wheel, not some supernatural force.

Every religion is the One True Religion.

Xander

Like I said, I was wondering. Myself, aside from deja vu, I've never had any first-hand experience with anything 'supernatural'.

Again, given that my mother was CERTAIN supernatural things happened to her, and it was the demons themselves working through her when she did divination, it works to make me curious.

I don't believe in demons, but it seems hard to believe that so many first-hand accounts are without any value whatsoever.

I think there is SOMETHING else 'out there'. I'm just looking for confirmation one way or another (I mean, if everyone here says 'yeah, I believed that, but then became skeptical and, lo and behold, all 'supernatural events' I was experiencing suddenly had an explanation - well, I'd like to hear that, too!)

Oh, like your sig, too, SYN. Reminds me of:
"They called themselves the Munrungs.
It meant The People, or The True Human Beings.
It's what most people call themselves, to begin with. And then one day the tribe meets some Other People or, if it's not been a good day, The Enemy. If only they'd think up a name like Some More True Human Beings, it'd save a lot of trouble later on.
--The Carpet People by Terry Pratchett

Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

og

Syn, my post specifically did not rule out unconscious influence. All I can add to that is that cards would come up that seemed so incredibly specific that I had a hard time attributing it to just unconscious influence. For the record, I am not a superstitious person, am fairly rational, and believe in scientific method.

Even if tarot is just a way to access the unconscious... well, that's something, wouldn't you say?

Xander

Even if tarot is just a way to access the unconscious... well, that's something, wouldn't you say?

Now, see, THAT's an interesting argument. But, how is the deck prepared such that the subconscious could have any effect on the reading?

Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

Sirona

HI

What an interesting thread!

I have had experience with this sort of thing. As a child (not a JW) I saw spirits on different occasions. Most of the time they looked like everyone else until they disappeared or walked through the wall. I'm being 100% honest about this... and as a child I didn't feel afraid of these things.

When I became JW as a young teenager, I consciously BLOCKED this. I used to wake at night knowing there was a spirit there, but I would close my eyes and mentally block it, while praying to Jehovah for protection. It was JWs who made me very afraid of these entities.

Nowadays, I don't block. I don't visually see spirits, but I can sense them and have had some communication (one case where I told someone something I couldn't possibly have known on my own). I still take precautions to protect myself because I do think that some entities can affect us negatively.

I have used "fortune cards" and a normal deck of cards, but not Tarot (I tried tarot but decided to start with the easy stuff). I've done very accurate readings. I don't believe that spirits are the information-givers in divination - I think that its something to do with everything being connected. Synchronicity, or unexplained coincidences, happen all the time. Its something to do with energy attracting similar energy.

Nowadays, I'm pagan and therefore you could say I have something to do with "Witchcraft" although I don't really like that word. I just simply believe that our thoughts can affect our reality, so I strive to think positively and to visualise my life going in the right direction.

I think that JWs put way too much emphasis on negative spirits. They also lead intuitive people to think they're "possessed". JWs think they are protected, but it is a fact that ANY faith in a deity and strong belief that you are protected will actually protect you, more often than not. Hence the power of conviction of any Christian priest for instance will likely be enough to ward off something nasty.

Just my thoughts...
Sirona

** http://www.religioustolerance.org **

Prisca

Sirona,

I'm interested in something you said in your post (yes, I reall all of it, just one bit caught my attention):

I still take precautions to protect myself because I do think that some entities can affect us negatively.

What are these "precautions" that you speak of? I'm interested, as I also believe that there are spirits around us, some bad, some good.

By the pricking of my thumbs....

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