Listening to you two talk in riddles to each other is fascinating.
New Blog Post: why did God seemingly allow Cain to get away with murder?
by adamah 79 Replies latest watchtower bible
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prologos
latin thunder:
being present at the Gen1:1 event ,or rather
being present just prior to that happening, (the big band?)
does NOT make one/it eternal.
eternal is a really long, big time, and
many things could have happened
before our neighbourhood started moving through time.
time ly research will tell.
A story that has a talking snake as one of the main serious characters may not be the best source to base your assumptions on.
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latinthunder
The Word of God comes from God also, yes... coming out of God, yes... I am not sure what the problem is there.
The problem is that you are claiming that the Word was not introduced until Genesis 1:3 making the Word a finite being (created instead of eternal; starting point). You have changed the nature of the Logos and that goes against John 1:1 which is a foundational scripture for Christianity. You call yourself a follower of truth, yet you teach a lie. You are teaching that darkness just IS and the Word was created. That's not gonna fly with any Christians. You must follow the rules of John 1:1 and place the Word where he belongs or you can't call yourself a follower of Christ. You are free to start a new religion, but you can't call it Christianity while remaining honest.
The Watchtower does the same exact thing. They say that orthodox Christianity is one big deception that draws people away from true worship. When all they are doing is studying the scriptures and coming to the correct conclusions.
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DATA-DOG
WOW... you need a new thread for all this!
Why did Cain live? Who knows? Perhaps he was allowed to live out his days so his potential offspring could exist. I really can't say, but I doubt that it's a salvation issue.
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latinthunder
being present at the Gen1:1 event ,or rather
being present just prior to that happening, (the big band?)
does NOT make one/it eternal.
There is "time" (us) and then there is "before time" (not us). Anything that was "before time" is considered "eternal." According to Christianity the Logos exists "before time" and therefore is eternal. Christ said that many would rise up against him and that's exactly what happened. For thousands of years people have been trying to strip him of his Divine status in order to usurp his power. Many have been decieved by a variety of deceptions. The Watchtower leads the charge, imo.
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tec
The Word was BORN... not created. And you know full well that I do not believe in the trinity or in 'christianity'. Just Christ. No doctrines; dogma; set of beleifs that one must follow in order to be a Christian. Just Christ. You know this also, and that I would never attempt to start any religion.
Why did Cain live? Who knows? Perhaps he was allowed to live out his days so his potential offspring could exist. I really can't say, but I doubt that it's a salvation issue.
It is not, you are correct. Salvation is in Christ... not doctrines or religion or men's reasonings, etc.
Teaching that God is to blame for the evil that men do though, that is the lie.
Peace,
tammy
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latinthunder
Tec, how did God create the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1? Was the Word involved?
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adamah
Adam said- Put up, then: ask Jesus to give you the answer to that scripture I requested, asking about evidence of whetever law you suggest existed between the Divine Prohibition against eating the Forbidden Fruit (Genesis 2), and the Noahide Covenant's restriction against bloodshed (Genesis 9).
TEC said-
You mean ask for you? I don't believe it works that way. You would not believe me, anyway. You have to ask and listen to Him, yourself. But you are not even looking at Him.
No: haughty non-inspired atheist that I am, I rest easy thinking I already KNOW the answer to the question I'm asking you to provide, so you'd simply be asking Jesus for your own personal education, not mine. But if your answer is better, I'm willing to look at the Jesus-provided answer you come up with (Jesus knew a thing or two about the Torah, as if you believe the Gospels, he was supposedly impressing the Rabbis in the synagogue of Jerusalem, even as a precocious young boy. If you're familiar with the Gnostic Text, "The Infancy Gospel of Thomas", you'd know that Jesus as a child taught his rabbinical teachers (as well as struck a few dead).
TEC said:
Your crux of this issue, however, is wrong. That it is God's fault that the hearts of men were filled with evil all the time... and because God forgot to declare murder against the law. That does not come from Christ.
Again, you've got the "presenting your conclusion" part down, now if you'd work on delivering supportive evidence into the actual form of an argument, you'd be all set!
See, the problem is this idea that God is "perfect" and can do no wrong goes against the Jewish view that humans NEVER created as perfect beings who fell from perfection by sinning; Jews have ALWAYS accepted that man by nature was created with an inclination for evil AND good. And being that they've written the Torah, the Holy Book which Christianity 1,000 yrs later decided to hijack and write a sequel to, they'd have a slightly better handle on its interpretation vs a foreigner like Paul who raised in a town where Greek culture was praised, and who only had "book-learning" experience of pharasical Judaism by reading a Greek language Hebrew Bible (the Septuagint).
Adam said- Irony noted of someone who believes in the Devil and God saying we should take responsibility for our own actions.
TEC said- Why is that ironic?
I didn't expect you to be able to detect the irony: that's actually part of what makes it so ironic.
Adam
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tec
Light" is a metaphor for truth because it exposes darkness, or lies. He never said he was the light of Genesis 1:3 which speaks of the separation between day and night. Did Christ ever say, "I am the day?"
Something to consider, and to ask about for those who have faith to ask and listen:
But you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. For those who sleep, sleep at night and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day...
Peace to you,
tammy
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latinthunder
But you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. For those who sleep, sleep at night and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day...
Once again, light or "the light of day" is a metaphor for truth. Theives, who are liars, and drunkards are creatures of the night which is why you don't send young ones into the middle of a city at night. Just as you don't send people into the jungle at night. What's being described here is the difference between people who love the light and people who love the darkness. The "good guys" are the "children of God" and the "bad guys" are "children of darkness." The Logos, who is Truth, comes to separate the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the weeds. These are ALL metaphors for the exact same thing. Lovers of truth vs lovers of the lie.