Fine Gary, but I was curious to see what Fernando makes of a defence of religion, I think he makes a good point about failing to define religion properly, I don't understand Fernando's definition of religion.
25 million YouTube views: "Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus"
by Fernando 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
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latinthunder
All people die. Sin separates them from the Source of Life. Jesus built a bridge back to the Source of Life. God causes Life. Sin causes death.
Do you believe that all of humanity, past and present, deserves to be tortured to death in the way that Christ was?
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Fernando
Hey Laika!
From what I have experienced and observed religion leads us away from the "unabridged gospel", away from faith, away from spirituality, away from the church (ekklesia), and away from Jesus.
It is not an accident that religion redefines each of the above to hide what it has done to us.
What would you think of a car salesman that does not know that a Ford is a motorcar?
It is no accident that it is near impossible to find a "Christian" that knows what the gospel is (let alone list its key ingredients/components/markers and expressions/iterations/manifestations).
Those who hear and pursue the "unabridged gospel" to its zenith reach milestones on their journey where they are able to look back and more clearly discern what they have left behind (legalism, moralism, ethnocentrism and the resulting fruits of hypocrisy, authoritarianism, self-righteousness, dogmatism, fundamentalism, divisive sectarianism, addiction, supremacist and otherwise aberrant thinking).
Defining religion as "relating to God on our terms" has limited meaning until one has personally undertaken such a journey.
There are many ways to start such a journey.
One could find and mark all the occurrences of the word "gospel" and/or phrase "good news" in one's Bible.
One could read Galatians and its introduction in a hardcopy of the Message Bible.
One could find and mark all these words by Paul: righteous/ness, justify, justification, justified.
One could find and mark Paul's use of the phrase "free gift".
One could delve into "law vs grace".
One could delve into "faith vs works".
Some may have embarked on just such a journey whilst still within the religious system (as in my case). Nothing wrong with that as long as one is aware/forewarned that an irreconcilable divergence could eventually result (divorce/excommunication).
To Watchtower religionists especially I would say: "do not leave the Watchtower until you have found Jesus (and preferably using the Watchtower's own publications)".
I'd be happy to clarify any of the above. PM may be a good way to go.
Greetings and blessings to you and yours
Fernando
(Left WBTS mid-2009 after 4 decades and 3 generations, to follow Jesus)
PS - I have a detailed one page summary of the gospel in the Watchtower library, that proves just how powerful religion is in using but hiding the gospel at the same time. It is in their publications but not in their hearts and not on their lips. I'd be happy to send you a copy.
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Laika
Hi Fernando!
Thanks for the response, I still need you to give me your definition of religion, until then I just don't think I'm going to work out what you're going on about!
What would you think of a car salesman that does not know that a Ford is a motorcar?
Probably about as much as a Christian who does not know that Christianity is a religion.
It is no accident that it is near impossible to find a "Christian" that knows what the gospel is (let alone list its key ingredients/components/markers and expressions/iterations/manifestations).
Hmmm.... I'd have thought it would be much easier to find people who can explain the gospel among regular churchgoers than among non-regular, but then do you consider someone who attends church regularly 'religious'? I don't know because you haven't defined it...
Those who hear and pursue the "unabridged gospel" to its zenith reach milestones on their journey where they are able to look back and more clearly discern what they have left behind (legalism, moralism, ethnocentrism and the resulting fruits of hypocrisy, authoritarianism, self-righteousness, dogmatism, fundamentalism, divisive sectarianism, addiction, supremacist and otherwise aberrant thinking).
Have you left all those things/fruits behind? What about the 'supremacist thinking' that says you're better than the religious?
To Watchtower religionists especially I would say: "do not leave the Watchtower until you have found Jesus (and preferably using the Watchtower's own publications)".
Is there a preferable way to find Jesus? And according to your video it's Jesus who finds you!
Greetings and blessings to you and yours
Thanks mate, same to you.
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Fernando
Hey Laika!
I have come to understand religion as "relating to God on our terms" with the view to gaining his approval.
Key elements or pillars of religion that are no part of the gospel are:
rule-making and keeping (legalism),
following a written external moral code (moralism),
following an agreed set of doctrinal beliefs determined by humans (ethnocentrism),
and a VISIBLE spiritual authority between God and man (a ruling religious clergy class, and their teaching of other humans as our spiritual covering instead of Christ alone).
This might explain why there are so many religions (so called faithS).
Many claim to be the right or true religion.
The Watchtower like many other religions postulates that the "true religion" has to do with dissecting doctrines and articulating a compulsory common belief in those doctrines.
This idea originated at Nicaea. The Watchtower has perfected their implementation of Nicaean ethnocentrism in their position on the Trinity, Hellfire and Immortality of the soul.
The Bible on the otherhand links "the truth" to "the Good News".
The Judeo/Christian/Muslim scriptures also never once use the word faithS which is commonly used in religion to mean religion (incorrectly and unscripturally). Instead there is only "one faith".
Does it follow that the many faithS are imposters of the "one faith"?
There is "arsenic in the honey". Pure honey was given to me as a "free gift". I did not earn, deserve or pay for this "free gift" that was granted and received by grace and faith. There is no way I can claim to be a better person than those who are eating the honey laced with arsenic (religion). I do not.
The gospel creates a fantastic level playing field. Even the biggest sinner (like me) can have his sin and guilt legally exchanged for Jesus' righteousness and Holiness, as a "free gift" available to anyone that wants it (as explained in the 3-minute Good-O-Meter video on YouTube).
I am grateful however that I do not seek to compete with Jesus for followers, and that I am no longer part of a group or organisation that does that (again by grace, faith and repentance alone - and all granted as unmerited "free gifts").
If and when one wants to examine the "unabridged gospel" as an alternative to religion, there are heaps of resources that God will reveal - in addition to what Paul wrote to the Galatians as rendered in plain English in the Message Bible (including the introduction to Galatians in this translation).
This is however a calling and one will know when they have received it. Trying to examine the relationship between religion and the "unabridged gospel" before one is called could potentially turn out to be wasted time and energy. In the end God knows best in regard to when and what.
Whilst we may have different perspectives on religion, I celebrate our common faith and unity in Christ.
May our older brother keep you and yours on your journey (Heb 2:11)
Fernando
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designs
Law v Grace is a myth
John 6:53
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Laika
Fernando
That's a good response and I don't find too much to disagree with, but to expand, whilst I would certainly accept that no church/religion is perfect and has many sins, for me religion is also the place where we receive the sacraments (baptism and communion) and I can't seperate these from Christianity, but perhaps that is a discussion for another thread.
I'd also add that I don't think 'rule keeping' is seperate from the gospel. Of course I agree we can't earn our salvation and everything we receive is by grace, but the gospel is in part that Jesus kept the law for us and transmutes his righteousness onto us via his cross. The law is the foundation for the gospel.
Whilst we may have different perspectives on religion, I celebrate our common faith and unity in Christ.
Indeed. Thanks for the response.