Need advice: Witnessing to a JW at my door

by Faithful Witness 43 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come! I was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a JW rang my doorbell. My barking German Shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which I really felt bad about. He had all his pubs in such a nice folder, luckily with lots of page protectors, etc. Interestingly, he never opened his bible...

    I'm going to relay what just happened, and see if anyone has pointers for me. I was never baptized, but we got to the last chapter of the Bible Teach book, before we had to end our bible study and stop going to meetings. After discovering things about the society, we could no longer lie to our friends and pretend we were going along with it. (In a nutshell). We live right on the border, as far as territories go... We chose the "wrong" Kingdom Hall when we moved here, and even though a few jokes were made about it, we kind of get double service. Our friends visit a lady across the street in the nursing home, and use that as an excause to call on us once or twice a year.

    This visit came from the cong in Holt, Michigan, where we never attended a single meeting (but apparently that's where we were "supposed" to go).

    I answered the door, and was greeted by a man with an Awake magazine about Halloween. Interesting! I accepted it, and let him say his little speech.

    He asked me if we read the Bible. I do read the Bible every day!

    As we talked a little bit, I was upfront with him. We are former bible students, and used to attend meetings. I named the man who was our main teacher (mistake perhaps, if he talks to him this week). He was anxious to book a return visit with his wife. I don't know if this was due to time constraints, or why... The people in the car kept looking over, like they wanted to go. The driver of the car turned around in the driveway while we were talking. Finally, his daughter (about 12) got out of the car and came up the walk. At that cue, he left right away...

    I told him we have been actually very aware of the new teachings of the watchtower. I asked him if he'd ever thought about the difference between serving jehovah god and serving an organization. what do you think about the 1914 generation? I find it interesting that they are clinging to this date, even though it is clearly inaccurate.

    How far would you go for the society? I hope you will discuss with your wife, what your limits would be? He talked about the times of Noah, and the 8 people who survived. I asked if this was a comparison to the 8 men who are the FDS. He denied that, explaining that it was the 8 million JW's worldwide, who have been given this clear warning. Again, I said, "How far would you go?"

    I asked him a few questions about himself, after he told me he was from Cambodia.

    He has been a JW since 1982. "Oh! So you have been through this kind of upheaval before... I think this is going to be a historic time in your religion's history."

    He is an elder in his congregation. "Oh! So you have the secret book! You probably already know what the instructions are..." I had mentioned my concerns about the actions and premonitons being published by the society. Moving to the country, warning people to be ready to obey... "History has shown us this type of pattern before, from religious leaders who start to feel like they are being backed into a corner." He smiled and said something about having instructions, so he could help the members of the cong.

    I told him how sincere and gentle he was. I encouraged him to do his research about the society. "oh, but you're not allowed to read anything that is not published and approved by the watchtower society, are you?" He said they did do research on their own... (???) "you know, we watch the news..." Not for long!

    I think he realized he needed reinforcements, very soon after we started talking. Either that, or they were in a hurry to meet friends for lunch. He was a very nice man (aren't they always). I was kind and gentle toward him, and made sure I listened intently to his responses. For the first time, I actually felt like I could speak up, and had enough information to be helpful (dangerous) to him.

    He seemed impressed that my dad is a JW. I told him we are concerned for all the JW people right now, and are carefully watching what the society is telling them to do and believe next.

    Any thoughts, based on what I have just shared? I have been given a calling, to reach out to JW's, and I believe this is a critical time, in which we are being given a window to access them, along with a deadline, as the GB is adding more bricks to the wall, and slamming all the windows shut in 2014.

    I need to be careful about wasting too much time on message boards. I am susceptible to that, and avoiding my real responsibilities at home. I had to close my Facebook account for this vet reason... (A little confession time from an Internet addict). I hope I can use my time online wisely, and get info that might actually help someone.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Welcome Faithful Witness, Your dog looks friendly. How much time do you want to spend reverse witnessing to this JW? I do commend your desire to help him critically think for himself.

    You can either do a shock an awe approach if you don't want to spend too much time to plant a seed of doubt, or a very slow get to know him as a person first and then start asking him simply questions that progressively get harder for him to answer. Searching JWN's threads will help you to learn great "deer-in-the-headlight" types of questions that will cause major cognitive dissonance and may plant a seed of doubt in a JW, but depending on your relationship with the JW may cause him to run away screaming apostate.

    Have you read any of Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visited his website www.freedomofmind.com, or watched any of his videos on his website? Becoming familar with Steve Hassan's BITE model and his methods will help you to be more successful reverse witnessing.

    Two simple question that comes to mind are to ask a JW, "Why are you a JW?", and if they say to have a closer relationship with God then ask them "Who is your mediator with God?" If they say Jesus Christ, then show them in the Kingdom Ministries where it says that the GB is the mediator for JWs who are not annointed and ask him how to interpret what is written in the Kingdom Ministries. Let him believe that he is witnessing to you versus that you are reverse witnessing to him. If he ever uses a platitude like "Where else would we go?", ask him why he misquotes John 6:68 and that he should know the answer is Jesus Christ and not an organization.

    Best of wishes helping JWs to critically think for themselves.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • adamah
    adamah

    How far would you go for the society? I hope you will discuss with your wife, what your limits would be? He talked about the times of Noah, and the 8 people who survived. I asked if this was a comparison to the 8 men who are the FDS. He denied that, explaining that it was the 8 million JW's worldwide, who have been given this clear warning. Again, I said, "How far would you go?"

    When a JW mentions the Flood, I'd be tempted to stick with that ONE account, and not hop-scotch around to other accounts in the Bible.

    I'd ask if they understand how God had already decided on the final passenger manifest of the Ark EVEN BEFORE telling Noah to begin construction on the ark? The fraudulent writings of 2nd Peter is the ONLY book of the Bible that claims Noah was "a preacher of righteousness", whereas the Genesis account itself and even Romans 11:7 says:

    "By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an arkto save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith."

    I've written about the issue in this article on my blog:

    http://awgue.weebly.com/genesis-vs-2nd-peter-noah-didnt-preach-bupkis.html

    I've also written about their general misunderstanding of the Flood account (and deliberate mistranslation) leads to a flawed blood policy:

    http://awgue.weebly.com/does-jehovahs-witnesses-blood-policy-reflect-they-understand-noahs-flood.html

    Adam

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Thanks, Robert.

    I have not read any of those books or sites yet. I've just begun on this mission, and had my sights set higher, on rescuing my family from the tower.

    This stranger will be good practice for that ultimate goal... Which I am already working on, in a quiet way, by leaking information to my parents. My sister who was shunning me, has also allowed me to ask her a few thought-provoking questions. I think she and my brother in law were willing to speak to me, because they learned we had gone to a meeting. I am anxious to ask her more questions about the new light, as depressing as it is, to see my intelligent sister respond like a drone. I think it is different to say those rehearsed answers to a "householder," or during your little skits, than to actually spit them out as your beliefs, when talking to your family who knows you better than that. I may be wrong, but I hope she thought about what she had said to me.

    Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely check it out. This man has a gentle demeanor, and I think the fact that English is not his native language, gives him a slight disadvantage. Since he seemed so interested in coming back, I am willing to prepare myself with some questions for him. I am patient, and will be looking forward to seeing how he responds... Maybe his wife is American and is his ringer... I guess we will see.

    I'm afraid of what he said when he got back to the car, and whether he will talk to Eric (the man who studied with us for over 2 years before giving up on us). I was honest with this new guy, and told him as much. If he does talk to Eric, he might get discouraged.

    I would love to get to know him and his story. I think I could gain some valuable insight into how they sucked him in, and he is not intimidating like Eric. I won't be afraid to ask him questions and gently pump him for inside information. I do hope he will come back.

    Our dog is friendly. She is loud, and she does her job (bark at strangers) extremely well. Haha.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Adam, Thank you! I will study your article. It is very interesting, and I had never been taught that perspective on Noah, and how God had already decided.

    I know, I jumped all over the place when I was talking to him. I got a little excited at the timing of his visit, and felt like I needed to keep throwing out more questions, in hopes something would ring a bell inside his head, or make him think about it later. I may have overwhelmed him with too many topics. He told me to write down questions. I was tempted to ask him for a pen. Haha. I have plenty, so I really need to choose carefully, so as not to scare him away too quickly.

  • adamah
    adamah

    I know, I jumped all over the place when I was talking to him. I got a little excited at the timing of his visit, and felt like I needed to keep throwing out more questions, in hopes something would ring a bell inside his head, or make him think about it later. I may have overwhelmed him with too many topics. He told me to write down questions. I was tempted to ask him for a pen. Haha. I have plenty, so I really need to choose carefully, so as not to scare him away too quickly.

    Yeah, I always say if you need to leave Genesis, you're working too hard. There's so much fertile territory in Genesis, so it's easy to keep it simple. (I generally don't get into the Genesis 1/2 creation account, as it's too easy for them to claim cover as being metaphorical/poetic, and hence kinda pointless; plus it gets into the whole Big Bang vs "God Dun It!" thing, which is pointless, as most people don't have the knowledge to understand on the basis of science).

    Be sure to look at my article on "Adam and Eve paradox" on my blog, too, since it's simple, yet effective (and be sure to have ANOTHER Bible available, and ask them to look it up in THEIR NWT, which is the ONLY translation to deviate from the others).

    Good luck!

    Adam

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi Faithful Witness, Have you thought about writing another thread on JWN with a title of "New Member", "New here", "Introducing myself", etc.? You may get more responses from more JWN members. Also, continue to vent on JWN so that your JW family and friends do not suspect that you disagree with the WTBTS.

    Reverse witnessing to JW family and friends is different then to strangers because the risks/consequences are greater. If your JW family or friends suspect that you disagree with the WTBTS, their cult persona will overwhelm their authentic persona and start shunning you. I highly recommend that you at least watch the following two videos of Steve Hassan to determine whether his ideas can help you: NY Ethical Culture Society February 2013 (41:09) and NY Ethical Culture Society 2010 (40:56). The good news is that JWs behave in predictable ways because of the WTBTS's indoctrination, so you just need to develop a repertoire of questions/retorts to help their authentic personas control their cult personas.

    You can prepare your JW friends and family to awaken without them suspecting that you are an apostate by:

    • Continueing to speak in cult speak (i.e., use Jehovah instead of God and praise anything that is spoken from the platform). Going to meetings occasionally may help.
    • Doing advance research using www.jw.org and posting questions on JWN about upcoming WTBTS articles so that you have simple questions to ask or retorts when JWs comment about new light,
    • Asking JWs how they feel and maybe saying that they look a little depressed and asking them more benign questions to hopefully help them to discover what is bothering them. It is very important for you to ask questions that help you to understand why a JW is willing to be a JW instead of leaving. Are they ill, do they want to have a pet lion, do they want to live forever, see a dead loved one, etc. and waiting for the Big A so that their fantasies come true.
    • Inviting your JW family and friends on fun outings. During and after the outings ask simple questions about whether they enjoyed themselves to reinforce the idea of having fun outside of the WTBTS.
    • Asking your JW family if they would like to participate in a Bible study with you. Your objective would be to ask simple questions about how the Pharisees and Sadducees used BITE control techniques to victimize Jews and how Jesus Christ confronted them without drawing any correlations to the WTBTS victimizing JWs.
    • Helping JWs to search the internet to locate WTBTS propaganda on www.jw.org (and may be more illuminating information on other website), to locate local, interesting, non-WTBTS activities to do (I recommend signing up at www.travelzoo.com for email alerts), and booking hotel accomadations for conventions/assemblies that are cheaper with better accomendations than WTBTS endorsed hotels and with fewer JWs to reinforce how well they were fed.
    • Inviting JWs to become involved in time consuming hobbies that you enjoy and they may enjoy. I recommend social partner dancing and investing. It does hurt to be able to have more money encase the Big A doesn't occur in a JWs lift time.
    • Sending JWs, who you have their email addresses, anonynomous emails like I wrote about in the thread You’ve Got Mail! TM.

    Best of wishes helping your JW family and friends to critically think for themselves.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Faithful Witness,

    I've come to realize that directly attacking their organization and it's false claims and failures may prove to be more harmful than anything else.

    It might prove to destroy any authentic faith (baby out with the bathwater) they may have in Jesus Christ.

    I would instead move to have a Bible study (Bible only) on salvation/justification. How one is saved according to the Bible? Is an organization needed in the salvation process? What are salvations benefits to every Christian? Are some Christians not in the New Covenant etc. In other words ask them to explain scriptures on the subject of righteousness, eternal life, the gospel Paul preached etc.

    I like the validation evangelism approach. Asking them to validate their unscriptural assumptions. e.g. Where does it say some or most Christians are not imputed the righteousness of Christ? etc.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    He told me that there are 8 million JW's worldwide. Is this number accurate today? I read somewhere that their numbers are dwindling.

    I would start a new thread, but I am limited. any help is appreciated! Thanks.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    If you really want to witness to them, don't do anything to frighten them off. They are not on your doorstep to listen to you, they are there to save your life by teaching you their religion and you need to let them think that they are doing that. You must be a prospective convert, not an opposer, a sheep, not a mythbuster.

    You make too many statements for him to take issue with and some of those statements are just your subjective opinion and are debatable. e.g. "Oh! So you have been through this kind of upheaval before... I think this is going to be a historic time in your religion's history.". They don't see it that way at all. All through their history there have been changes, all high control groups do it. They are conditioned to it. If you are going to express an opinion, try to make it one that you already know they agree with.

    Ask a question you know he will want to answer, then shut up and make him do the talking, the thinking, the research. If you have asked a good question he will use all manner of tactics to not answer it and you have to really be on the ball if you are not going to let him off the hook. You need him to want to give you a sensible answer to that question, to make impossible promises that he thinks he can keep, statements that he can't find literature he trusts that support them, etc..

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