Do Kids Hate Being JW`s?

by Englishman 95 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Xandit, I'm new here, but I've been online elsewhere more-or-less since there was a 'line' to be 'on'. I'm probably gonna get round to posting an introduction at some point today, but your angle interests me.

    Your attitude reminds me of a phase that many people go through. For the first two years after I had walked away the only comment I would venture about JW's was something along the lines of 'they're good people, but I just can't live my life that way'. I would defend them.

    To be blunt, I didn't know any better. Are you familiar with the characteristics of a mind control cult? Ignore the word cult in fact, as I don't want to get bogged down by semantics. Substitute 'system of belief'. If you're not, and I won't believe you are unless you can list them, then you don't know why people here don't 'mind their own business’, or are sharply critical of aspects of their upbringing with the JW's.

    If you can’t answer the question about systems of belief that use mind control, I suggest you equip yourself with that information. Then you might realise why people feel the way they do, and are vocal about it, and not dismiss them almost out-of-hand. And ask yourself if you’d be defending the Moonies the same way.

    WHAT HAVE YOU
    got to live for
    IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
    you'd die for?

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Are you guys noticing the READERSHIP on this thread?? You have definitely hit a nerve here.

    As for this NOT being a cross section of JWs or EXJWs...I have been out of the borg and online (with few exceptions) DAILY since March of 1996. And like many of you, I have been DEEPLY involved in the lives of the people who remain in and who, like me, have gotten the hell out of The Tower of Babel II. And this IS an accurate cross section of those who are leaving! It reflects EVERYTHING I have read and experienced and seen since coming on board 5 years ago. No matter where you are in the world, the experiences are exactly the same...some WORSE in fact...but the attitudes, the reactions, the damage are EXACTLY as portrayed here. And the Society is WELL AWARE of what they are doing to people and couldnt give a rat's ars, as long as they get their money and the mucky mucks get their free cars, and food, digs and life and health insurance paid for em.

    If you want a PRIME example of JW control over kids lives, you need only read the brochure by the Society "Preparing For Child Custody Cases" which Randy has on his site with his comments. Read that thing...it will make you PUKE and I saw this stuff IN COURT and IN PERSON, and watched the JWs lie through their donut rotted teeth right to the judge's face, with two attorneys from Bethel sitting right there prompting the blatantly false testimony.

    http://www.freeminds.org/legal/custody.htm

    The gist being...that in COURT the JW parent and child must learn to PRETEND that they are "normal" to satisfy the courts. They must be LEAD to say EXACTLY what needs to be said to FAKE "normalcy." Xandit...wherever you are from, what you portray is NOT the norm, and if you believe that only YOUR experiences represent the "usual" within the Unfriendly Confines of the Organization, you havent done much reading in here at all.

    The Society is extremely two-faced. On the one hand they wont allow kids to go out for sports in school because of the Bad Association, and in the next breath will be GLOATING about the Williams Sisters as Witnesses who are taking a victory lap at the OLYMPICS (another forbidden nationalistic activity) WITH an American Flag, STANDING for the national anthem and COMPETING internationally with every sordid bad associate with a tennis racket out there. Now their older brother has had his HOLY BUTT hauled into court for assaulting his wife, and the father is suspected of fixing matches. Gosh but LOOK! Even "celebrities" are Jehovahs Witnesses so it MUST be the truth! Or some such twisted reasoning as that.

    What they say and what they do, and what they SAY they do are ENTIRELY different things.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Xandit, I'm new here, but I've been online elsewhere more-or-less since there was a 'line' to be 'on'. I'm probably gonna get round to posting an introduction at some point soon, but your angle interests me.

    Your attitude reminds me of a phase that many people go through. For the first two years after I had walked away the only comment I would venture about JW's was something along the lines of 'they're good people, but I just can't live my life that way'. I would defend them.

    To be blunt, I didn't know any better. Are you familiar with the characteristics of a mind control cult? Ignore the word cult in fact, as I don't want to get bogged down by semantics. Substitute 'system of belief'. If you're not, and I won't believe you are unless you can list them, then you don't know why people here don't 'mind their own business’, or are sharply critical of aspects of their upbringing with the JW's.

    If you can’t answer the question about characteristics of systems of belief that use mind control, I suggest you equip yourself with that information. Then you might realise why people feel the way they do, and are vocal about it, and not dismiss them almost out-of-hand. And ask yourself if you’d be defending the Moonies the same way.

    WHAT HAVE YOU
    got to live for
    IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
    you'd die for?

  • Latte
    Latte

    Casper,

    Your post was so right!! The smacking, and 'low status' of the little ones in the org. is one of the reasons why I left.
    I feel so happy that I can now bring my children up the way that I feel fit. The looks off others (elders etc) is a tremendous pressure for parents to really expect waaaay too much of their children. It is truly sick.

    **** I have seen small children, back handed in the mouth, for
    whispering, beaten on the legs with wooden spoons, and beg
    for "HELP" when finally taken to the bathroom for a more
    severe flogging..!!!!! Why..?? Mostly because of disapproving
    looks from the Elders....and the "More Mature" ones.

    Some of these children were just babies...doing what babies
    do.....*****

    I have never experienced children being actually hit with an instrument, but the regular smacks on late evenings when they should be in bed like all the other kids is just not right. Too many meetings.

    Like others, I have a few tales to tell, it's the same the JW world over it seems. I would say that, yes, it's seems clear that the GB DO NOT have kid's......they have no idea have much you can love a child more than yourself. What a shame for them!

    The short version.

    Latte

  • outnfree
    outnfree
    What they say and what they do, and what they SAY they do are ENTIRELY different things

    Truer words were never spoken, LovesDubs.

    The Society has "loosened up" (geez! just the terminology -- loosened up on the CONTROLLING REINS!) their position on school sports activities in recent years as they have on higher education. My teenage girls (albeit not baptized anyway, and children of a non-JW father) participated in high school swimming for the past two years. When my eldest went out for the team, which, actually, I permitted/encouraged her to do because she was a bit of a couch potato, I STILL found myself justifying her participation to the elder conducting my book study and any other JW who knew the "situation." And that's really how it was thought of, as "a situation" [implicit in the term: conduct somehow unbecoming a Witness child]. Of course, Katie could've cared less, but (as I remember in shame with head hung) I was still kowtowing to the Witness ideal of youth at that point in time. I remember myself actually rationalizing that because it was a sport where you competed against YOURSELF in trying to better your own individual time[s] as well as as a TEAM in learning discipline and responsibility that it was an okay thing to let the girls do.

    Fortunately, because of my non-JW husband's presence, I allowed my children to do many things their JW peers could not do. It was, in actuality, ME encouraging them to have an outlet in dance, chorus, and sports (even YMCA! LOL), all the time knowing that the elders really couldn't call me to task for it, because of my unbelieving mate! (I learned my deceit at the hands of the masters, friends!)
    Same with worldly holidays. I didn't accept birthday, Christmas or Mother's Day gifts, but I DID take the photographs, occasionally help my husband at 4 AM when he was running out of time to wrap the Xmas gifts for the kids (not too often though -- taking my STAND, dontcha know?), and never missed the family dinners out we had in lieu of cake and candles after dinner at home for everyone elses' birthday.
    I cooked turkey almost every Thanksgiving, I LOVE sausage-flavored sage stuffing with cranberry sauce!!! After all, it's just another meal and the birds are on sale (an elder told me this -- more than once -- an oldtimer).

    I think my son suffered the most. He has always been inordinately impressed/worried that God's ONLY Son had to die for mankind. Being an only son himself, I think he had some subconscious fears that HE was being sacrified on the WT altar! He's extremely bright. And we're done now, and he's 12, so I have hope he'll work all that out in future.

    Our congregation used to have "gatherings" up until about '96 or so (?), when it seemed there was a crackdown from the Society because of an article in the WT stressing that the event must not be so large that it can get out of control. Also, the brothers would get together on Friday nights to shoot hoops at a local middle school gym. I'm not sure if the sports still goes on. In the past two years, there have been picnics with softball/volleyball and the like for special events like Bethel going away parties, a 25th Wedding Anniversary, celebrating the wedding of a sister that moved away from our congregation but still had ties. But NOT the "Congregation-sanctioned" barbecues of the past. And now a sister is planning a FORMAL Dinner/Dance to give the Friends a chance to dress up. Of course, our congregation was known to be the "party congregation" in the area. So Xandit's tales ring true to me.

    We used to have parties at our house, too, when my husband was away on business, just so my kids could have some FUN! He didn't want the Witnesses in our house for the most part, and we had lots of giggles planning whom to invite so we could party before he came back. Hmmmmmm. None of the invited elders ever took me aside to ask if entertaining them against my opposed husband's wishes was wise or perhaps deceitful. I guess it's all good as long as it's for spiritual upbuilding in the theocratic war! (and as long as there's euchre and wine!)

    Looking back, I think God was watching out for my kids by helping ME to be balanced. NOT Society "balanced", but Real World, dealing-with-real-people-with-different-views-and-feelings-balanced. I think they are not too strange and they have only worldly friends now!

    Yet, given all the exceptions and the truly unorthodox manner of their upbringing during the 15 or so years I was in, every one of my four children would tell you that growing up a JW sucked!

    outnfree

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Hi Englishman,

    When thinking back on my young days as a JW, I really don't regret it.
    My parents were very loving and gave me a lot of latitude. There were things I didn't like doing, like street work, standing there with the magazines in front of all those people.(It was in the 40s) In the 50s I was growing onto a tennager and I was pretty much doing as I pleased. My best friend was a worldly person but was morally good. We stayed together all the time when I wasn't at meetings and in the service. I played basketball on the High School team and my Dad, who was the PO in the congregation would come to the games sometimes. I was in the bata club at school, played a leading role in the high school play and was in the student councel.

    I dated worldly girls on occasion, didn't engage in sex as this was looked down on by the "nice" school kids. My cousin would inform me of the ones with the best figures, she would know as she showered with them after sports in the gym. I remember this blond, wow! was she a doll and we dated for a while, she married a doctor. I had a great time in my teens and don't regret my upbringing in the "truth" as it probably saved me from some mistakes I might have made, I really couldn't say for sure though. I think I would probably have been the same person as I was.

    Well, that's all I'll say now, my daughter just walked in.

    Regards,

    Ken P.

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