Bible Error: Peter Denies Knowing Jesus

by JosephAlward 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JosephAlward

  In the dialogue below, Jesus scoffs at Peter’s claim that he will give his life for Jesus. He tells Peter that before the sun comes up in the morning--before the rooster crows--Peter would that very night pretend he did not even know Jesus.
  
  Readers should note especially that in the John passage below, Jesus is predicting that the rooster would not crow until after Peter has denied knowing Jesus three times.
  

  Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

  Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

  Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. (John 13:36-38)

  
  Thus, the writer of John 13 above says Jesus predicted there would be no crowing by the rooster until after Peter has denied knowing Jesus three times. As you will see below, however, the writer of Mark presents information which totally contradicts what John said Jesus predicted would happen.

  And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

  And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

  But he denied [the first denial], saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

  Wait a minute! John said Jesus predicted the cock wouldn’t crow until after Peter had denied Jesus three times; this is only the first time! So there can be no doubt that the denial above is the first one, and not the third, we show below the other two denials:

  And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.

  And he denied it again [the second denial]. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

  But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak [This is the third denial.] (Mark 14:66-72 KJV)

  
  We see clearly that either John was wrong about what Jesus predicted, or Mark was wrong about when the cock crowed, or else they were both right--but that means that the son of God was a false prophet.

  
  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
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  Dawn

  Hi Joseph:

  Perhaps you should re-read this - I was interested in your comment so I pulled out my bible:

  Mar 14:67 - 72 and seeing Peter warming himself, she looked at him, and said, "You also were with the Nazarene, Jesus. But he denied it, (DENIAL #1) saying, "I neither know nor understand what you mean." And he went out into the gateway. And the maid saw him, and began again to say to the bystanders, "This man is one of them." But again he denied it. (DENAIL #2) And after a little while again the bystanders said to Peter, "Certainly you are one of them; for you are a Galilean." But he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, "I do not know this man of whom you speak." (DENAIL #3) And immediately the cock crowed a second time. And Peter remembered how Jesus had said to him, "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny me three times."

  I did not see mention of a cock crowing before the third denial here. What did I miss??
• 

  JosephAlward

  Dawn writes,

  "I do not know this man of whom you speak." (DENIAL #3) And immediately the cock crowed a second time. And Peter remembered how Jesus had said to him, "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny me three times."

  I did not see mention of a cock crowing before the third denial here. What did I miss??

  I underlined above what you may have overlooked. I believe you are using the NIV translation here. The translators evidently left out the first crowing of the cock, otherwise why would they speak of the second cock crow?

  You mentioned that you "pulled out my Bible." I have a Bible, too, but I extremely rarely ever open it. I use Bible Gateway, which provides about a dozen different translations of the Bible, in as many different languages. You may find using it more expeditious than opening a paper Bible, especially if you need to compare the various translations. You'll find a link to the Bible Gateway on my website, in the directory called "Bibles."

  You will find the translation I used--the King James Version--shows that there was a cock crow after the first denial.

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  Bang

  What are you backward Joseph ?

  "I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
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  Abaddon

  This might be grammatical, but it IS funny;

  "And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew."

  And the cock crew did what?
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  Sirona

  Dawn, Clearly there is an inconsistency here. One account says the Cock will not crow until he's denied Jesus Thrice, and one says that the cock crowed for a second time after the 3rd denial (hence the cock crowed once before the 3rd denial).

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
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  Dawn

  Interesting.....I never noticed that!!

  I'll do some more research on it.
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  sunstarr

  Interesting to note that Mark's account (Mr. 14:30) indicates that Jesus stated that Peter's denial would come before "the cock crows twice." After the denial, Peter recalled that Jesus had said "twice." Why would the Gospels record Peter's statement of how he remembered Jesus saying "Before the cock crows twice" if Jesus hadn't used the word twice? I don't see the discrepancy.
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  Kenneson

  On the Denials of Peter, here is another possibility:

  http://ww2.bibelcenter.de/bible/e-widerspruch/e-wds10.htm
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  JosephAlward

  Sunstarr writes,

  I don't see the discrepancy.

  It's true that there's no discrepancy in Mark's story: three denials are made before the cock crowed twice, just as Peter said Jesus had predicted. Here is the KJV version of the story (the NIV version leaves out the first crowing in Verse 68, but that doesn't matter; the story is consistent with or without stating the cock crowed in that verse).

  66 And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:
  67 And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.
  68 But he denied [the first denial], saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew;69 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.
  70 And he denied it again. [the second denial] And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.
  71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak. [the third and final denial]
  72 And the second time the cock crew.

  The contradiction occurs when one compares what is said in the passage above from Mark, in which a crowing occurred BEFORE all of the denials had been made, with the passage below from a different author, who says that NO crowing at all will occur until all three denials have been made:

  Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice. (John 13:36-38)

  This should be pretty clear: the author of John 13 thinks that the rooster will wait until all three denials have been made, then it will crow. However, the author of Mark says that the rooster did NOT wait for all three denials; the rooster crowed after the first denial, and thus John contradicts Mark.

  That is not the only contradiction. The author of Mark has Peter remembering Jesus saying something quite different from what the author of John said Jesus said:

  Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows twice you will disown me three times." And he broke down and wept." (Mark 14:72)

  Note that this statement from Mark implies that there would be one or more denials between the first crow and the second one; thus, according to Mark, the crow would be crowing before all three denials had been made. This is not at all what the author of John said Jesus predicted: "The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice." (John 13:36-38). We see here that the author of John said that the crow would do no crowing whatsoever until all three denials had been made, and this directly contradicts the author of Mark 14:72. There are thus at least two distinct contradictions in these stories.

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html