Experience regarding Elders being spirit appointed

by Comatose 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Newly Enlightened

  Good post Comatose! You are exactly right. This has been Hubby & I argument for years. How can these men be 'spirit appointed' in 1 cong. and NOT spirit appointed in another.

  Hubby's dad, served as a MS for 8 years and finally a new CO came in and asked the BOE why this man was never recommended as an elder.

  Here is my thought: My father in law always researched a subject and didn't rely on his personal opinion. He was not afraid to question or challenge the BOE and we have heard from other elders that he was the only elder that would come to elder's meeting with WT articles directing how the BOE should handle or view these matters.

  So in other words, the elders knew that he would make waves or be a thorn in their side if they wanted to do things their way.

  So we feel this is why it took a CO to get him appointed. This is why Hubby could never get appointed also and was always in trouble and being back-roomed.
• 

  Oubliette

  Newly Enlightened, thanks for sharing the experience about your FIL. How ironic! He wasn't getting appointed because he wanted to be sure things were done according to WTBTS rules, policies and procedures!!!

  What a whacked out organization this is.

  It is so clear that God, Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit have nothing to do with this organization. In hindsight, I often wonder why I didn't see it sooner!.
• 

  blondie

  Yes, David was lucky that people in Israel remembered how David did not kill Saul...but then David was glad that the Israelites did not have him put to death for adultery and murder and how David got a free pass from God supposedly...but not free passes for the "ordinary" people. Only the important people appointed by God.

  Like Aaron too

  Having been married to an elder at the end of my jw career, I definitely knew that no holy spirit was involved. I saw the cruelty of the other elders and the silent cowardice of those who watched who had said "we have your back" to my kind hubbie. There are jws that still think that the GB meets and prays over all the elder appointments (not that they knew anything about them) and handed it off the non-anointed male jws.
• 

  Sammy Jenkis

  One, isn't it funny the way congregational politics works?

  Yeah it is, sometimes I couldn't wrap my mind around how ridiculous some of these guys would act- especially when the CO came around. It was like the King himself had arrived and they would go into full politico mode.

  Two, if spirit does the appointing, then how could it be wrong to appoint him?

  Well the truth has to be that most JW men that are trying to "reach out" for one of those power positions are really just good old fashioned lobbyists. The case you shared with us illustrates the fact perfectly, using service time and charisma they win over people's hearts and gain favor. How can it be then that they're spirit appointed? It can't be but the plan sounds good on paper.

  Thanks for sharing.
• 

  Violia

  he's probably got a lot of dirt on the old elder body. They often do shady things and he probably knows too much. Wouldn't want him talking about it .
• 

  Iown Mylife

  great, great info here. i had so many times when i tried to keep having faith that those guys were appointed by hs, and trying to reconcile it with stuff they did. One of the big dog elders who was treated like a rock star was a very talented swindler. OH but people WILLINGLY gave him their money so he didn't do anything wrong. And you better not SAY anything about the way he treated people.

  One case we knew about without a doubt was an elder who used his wife as a punching bag but continued in good standing after she got disf for leaving him.

  One elder was a huge drunk - at home only. How awesome was his wisdom at the meetings, just too too! So after his wife couldn't take any more hypocrisy, or any more of the elders telling her to stop coming to them about her husband's drunkeness, she left - and was promptly disf. But you better not SAY anything or YOU will be in big trouble buddy! Because you will be against the HOLY SPIRIT appointing of these beloved but (slightly) imperfect, Jehovah-loving brothers.
• 

  Cold Steel

  Oubliette: It didn't take long to see that "Holy Spirit" had nothing to do with anything. It didn't take long to see that "Holy Spirit" had nothing to do with anything. ... One example involved a young man that had been disfellowshipped. He attended meetings for a while, met with us, told us exactly what we wanted/needed to hear and was reinstated. Even during the reinstatement meeting I had the distinct feeling that he was insincere and only telling us what he needed to say to get reinstated so that his family could have contact with him without getting themselves into trouble with the elders.

  Well, in his defense, who could blame him for wanting the company of his family? Ritual shunning is a horrible doctrine and is completely opposed to Christianity.

  Regarding the Holy Spirit, the premise of its role in a church would be based on the legitimacy of the church. The Jehovah's Witnesses still haven’t made a serious case for its legitimacy. Jesus inspected all the religious sects on the earth in 1919 and chose them. According to whom? And that’s the rub. There are no witnesses who can attest to the Lord’s selection, no angelic visits, no prophetic announcements, no declarations from Heaven, no priestly lines. So if one’s foundational claims are not correct, one’s claims to the gift of the Holy Spirit cannot have validity. Also, in the ancient church, members were first baptized by immersion and then given the gift of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. This is the baptism of water and of the Holy Spirit. The Jehovah's Witnesses only baptize by water. Very few Christian churches purport to do the latter. Finally, even if the Society had the gift of the Holy Spirit, it wouldn’t mean it was infallible. The ancient apostles made it quite clear that everything wasn’t handed to them on a platter.

  Wherever there’s an organization of people, there will be folks who seek power, gain and social status. Early on, as a Methodist and later, as a non-denominational church member, I noticed that most pastors, priests, reverends, whatever, love to get invited to members’ houses for dinner, but none that I ever saw ever reciprocated. My wife’s priest and his wife (Eastern Orthodox) have been over a few times, but we’ve never been invited to their home. And we go in various restaurants around town and see photos of him and his wife enjoying dinner with parish members, and I guarantee he’s never sprained his hand reaching for the check! So it’s not just the Jehovah's Witnesses. It’s all politics.
• 

  piztjw

  I have noticed that "spirit" does in reality plyb a HUGE role in men getting the coveted titles of MS or Elder. But the spirit that plays that role in all cases I know of is the spirit one finds in a bottle of good Scotch, or in high priced Tequila. If one puts on a great appearence to mens eyes, says all the right things, and "kisses" the right asses you will be appointed no matter how sinful you are. But the more spiritual one is the less chance of getting those all important positions and titles. It's strange how the less intelligent a person is the more intimidated they are by anyone who is more intelligent than they are.
• 

  Narcissistic Supply

  There are extreme narcissists in all walks of life? The JW’s just provide the petri dish for the concentration of them.

  The structure of the organization allows the narcissist to thrive and survive and prey upon their victims. And these people are victims. The victims of the narcissist are just that, manipulated to no end.
• 

  BluesBrother

  Having spent many years on the inside of BOE's I soon realised that H/S had absolutly nothing to do with the appointments. It was human, pure and simple. The politics of the body have got so much to do with it and they depend on who is in charge. I moved congs. and thre were times that I was swiftly reappointed when I knew in myself that I was not "spiritual" at the time, and times when I felt good about it ,then I was not appointed - for trivial reasons. I have seen good men turned off the BOE and numpties appointed.

  Using the name of God and H/S just gives weight to their decisions and enables them to be above criticism if someone is not used , they can just say "Well, The Spirit did not move us......"