JWs and Gog and MaGog...What Gives?

by Cold Steel 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie

    According to the WTS Gog is Satan the Devil.

    *** it-1 pp. 980-981 Gog ***

    Identification of Gog. The lands and peoples mentioned in the prophecy relating to Gog are known from the Bible and to some extent from secular history. But efforts to identify Gog with some historically known earthly ruler have not been successful. Most frequently suggested is Gyges, king of Lydia in western Asia Minor, called Guggu in the records of Assyrian monarch Ashurbanipal. (Ancient Records of Assyria and Babylonia, by D. Luckenbill, 1927, Vol. II, pp. 297, 351, 352) Gyges, however, had died decades before the writing of Ezekiel’s prophecy. Hence, such identification is unacceptable. Additionally, the prophecy itself places Gog’s attack in “the final part of the years,” “in the final part of the days.” (Eze 38:8, 16; compare Isa 2:2; Jer 30:24; 2Ti 3:1.) For these reasons, the name Gog is evidently cryptic or symbolic, not being that of any known human king or leader.

    The evidence points to a fulfillment in what is elsewhere called “the time of the end.” (Da 11:35; 12:9; compare Re 12:12.) Bible scholars and commentators generally recognize the prophecy as relating to the time of the Messianic Kingdom. As an example, The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge comments: “Gog appears as the leader of the last hostile attack of the world-powers upon the kingdom of God.” (Edited by S. Jackson, 1956, Vol. V, p. 14) No fulfillment on natural Israel is known. The fulfillment in “the final part of the days” logically is with regard to spiritual Israel, the Christian congregation (Ro 2:28, 29; Ga 6:16), described by the apostle Paul as children of, and directed by, the “Jerusalem above.” (Ga 4:26) These points aid in arriving at the identification of Gog.

    Further aid is found in the book of Revelation. Prophetic visions there foretold a great increase in persecution against the Christian congregation on the part of the symbolic dragon, Satan the Devil. This was to follow his being cast down, with his demons, from the heavens to the region of the earth, an act accomplished by the Kingdom of God through Christ at the time of Jesus’ beginning to exercise kingly authority. (Re 12:5-10, 13-17) The massing of earthly nations against God, his Son, and God’s faithful servants on earth figures prominently in these visions, as does also the total defeat and desolation of such enemy forces. (Re 16:13-16; 17:12-14; 19:11-21) The feasting by birds on the corpses of such enemies of Christ’s Kingdom rule likewise finds a correspondency here.—Compare Eze 39:4, 17-20 with Re 19:21.

    The central figure, or leader, of the earth-wide assault against the Messianic Kingdom and its subjects, according to Revelation, is Satan the Devil. He is the only person in the Biblical record who can be said to fulfill adequately the description and role assigned to ‘Gog of Magog’ in the prophecy given to Ezekiel. The prophecy in Ezekiel concerning Gog therefore points to a vicious, earth-wide assault on God’s people, an assault engineered and led by the abased Satan the Devil. This attack is what triggers the complete wiping out of such Satanic forces by means of God’s awesome power.—Eze 38:18-22.

    *** it-1 p. 981 Gog ***

    Is the Gog referred to in Revelation the same as the one in Ezekiel?

    3. Revelation 20:8 also speaks of “Gog and Magog.” Here, however, the reference is not to an individual commander, or ruler. Both names are shown to apply to “those nations in the four corners of the earth” who allow themselves to be misled by Satan after he is released from the symbolic “abyss.” Since other texts show that the Millennial Rule of Christ brings an end to national rule and divisions (Da 2:44; 7:13, 14), it would appear that such “nations” are the product of rebellion against his earth-wide dominion. They advance “over the breadth of the earth” to encircle “the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.” This comes after the Millennial Rule over earth by Christ Jesus has reached its completion.—Re 20:2, 3, 7-9.

    The use of the names “Gog and Magog” evidently serves to emphasize certain similarities between this post-Millennial situation and that of the earlier assault (prior to Satan’s being abyssed). Both in Ezekiel and in Revelation, the opposers are numerous (those in Revelation being of an indefinite number, “as the sand of the sea”); the attack is the result of a widespread conspiracy and is directed against God’s servants when they enjoy great prosperity. So, the use of “Gog and Magog” to describe those led into a post-Millennial rebellion is very fitting. Their end is absolute destruction.—Re 20:8-10, 14.


    *** w07 8/1 p. 9 par. 6 Highlights From the Book of Ezekiel—II ***

    38:1-23. How reassuring it is to know that Jehovah will rescue his people from the attack of Gog of the land of Magog! Gog is the name given to “the ruler of this world,” Satan the Devil, after his ouster from heaven. The land of Magog refers to the vicinity of the earth, to which Satan and his demons are confined.—John 12:31; Revelation 12:7-12.

    *** w03 6/1 p. 20 par. 11 Stand Still and See the Salvation of Jehovah! ***

    11 Gog of Magog is identified as Satan the Devil in his debased position since 1914. As a spirit creature, he cannot carry out his attack directly, but he will use human agencies to do his deeds.

    *** w73 5/15 p. 294 Lasting Relief from War ***

    The prophecy of the Bible book of Revelation gives us clues that help us to identify Gog, the leader of the attack, and to understand what fight it is that Gog leads. In chapters seventeen and eighteen, Revelation describes the complete destruction of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. Then, in the nineteenth chapter, it speaks of the destruction of the military forces of earth along with their political organizations or governments.—Rev. 19:17-21; compare Revelation 19:19, 20 with Daniel 8:20, 21 as to the Bible’s representation of world political governments figuratively as beasts.

    But, just who is Gog? Again, Revelation helps us. For it reveals that the nations are led to war by demonic influence, chief of whom is the “dragon,” Satan the Devil. (Rev. 12:9; 16:13, 14, 16) Gog, therefore, is Satan the Devil since his being hurled down to earth. What is the land in which he dwells, the “land of Magog”? There is no such land mentioned otherwise in Bible history. This “land” is described as “the remotest parts of the north.” (Ezek. 38:6) It would be isolated and sparsely settled.

    *** kj chap. 19 p. 362 par. 31 Defeat Awaits Attack by Nations under Gog ***

    In addition to having spoken about Gog of Magog by means of his prophets in former days and years, Jehovah fittingly brings this identically same individual to mind again by means of Ezekiel. Knowing how Satan the Devil, who takes on the role of Gog of Magog, got started and what are his motives, Jehovah knows what the finale of Satan’s course will be as Gog of Magog. He knows that it means at last a showdown fight between him and Satan the Devil alias Gog. He keeps his remnant of spiritual Israel from thinking that the ancient prophecy concerning Gog has nothing to do with them as Christians. He does this by foretelling the final maneuvers of Satan or Gog in the book listed as the very last one in the Bible, Revelation or Apocalypse. There, in connection with the next to the last plague, we read, in Revelation 16:12-16:

    With regard to what the “land of Magog” figuratively means, Revelation’s prophecy shows that, after Christ’s enthronement takes place in heaven, Satan loses a war in heaven and is hurled down to the earth. This betokens “woe for the earth,” which woe culminates in the final war. Having no further access to heaven, but being confined to the earth’s vicinity, the Devil’s situation is an isolated one, with only the demons accompanying him. So “the land of Magog” is the invisible place or area to which Satan is confined at the time he makes his attack.—Rev. 12:5, 7-12.

  • Truth seeker 674
    Truth seeker 674

    how fucked do you have to be to teach this to young children!!!

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Thanks, Blondie. Isn’t it amazing that the Jehovah's Witnesses never use words like “probably” or “most likely.” I also never recall them saying “possibly.” It seems to be their propensity to make false assumptions and then build on them level after level and then have to apologize, revise or deny later that they were wrong.

    Regarding Gog, we know that Ezekiel records Yahweh as saying, “ After many days...in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people.” This is obviously Judah, who in the last days will be gathered out of all nations. Isaiah writes: “ And [Yahweh] shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. ” (Isa. 11:12)

    And Gog shall be brought “against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. ” (Ezek. 38:8)

    By committing themselves too quickly, before the gathering of Judah, the Society got themselves plum stuck in the hooey because now they can’t get out of it, and they’re caught in teaching a monumental falsehood. And to later try to get out of it would be like stepping on a hand grenade! No amount of “new light” can make things right. To do that, it would mean accepting the prophecies regarding the gathering of Judah, and the Society is too far down the road to backtrack!

    Paul, speaking of Gog/Beast/Antichrist writes: “He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4) What temple is this? The temple that Ezekiel foretells and, in fact, gives the directions for building. John, too, speaks of it in Revelation 11:1-2): “And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.” It’s the court that is given unto Gog to occupy for three and a half years.

    So the Jehovah's Witnesses must find themselves in these prophecies somehow, and this they cannot do. Gog is a threat to the Jews in Jerusalem, not to the Governing Body and the Society. (Unless they happen to be touring Israel at the time.)

    Joel Richardson, author of The Islamic Antichrist (a great book, BTW) writes:

    Actually, in order to estimate who Gog is, all one must really do is take a look at who the Antichrist is. The Antichrist, quite simply, is the devil incarnate—or at least the closet thing to it. Some passages of Scripture actually shift from speaking of Satan to speaking of the Antichrist seamlessly as if they are one and the same (for instance, see Isaiah 14). And as we have seen, Satan will share his worship with the Antichrist. Simply stated, Antichrist is the puppet that Satan will use to attack Jerusalem. And, at least in the Book of Revelation, Gog is also Satan’s puppet, and he will serve the very same purpose. In terms of both role and function, the Antichrist and the Gog of Revelation are essentially the same. Even as Satan will raise up a man to carry out his work in the days to come, so will Satan also raise up a man to carry out his final rebellion against God one more time at the end of the Millennium.”

    Richardson, Joel, The Islamic Antichrist: The Shocking Truth about the Real Nature of the Beast, p. 84.

    But how do we know that there are two battles of Gog and Magog. Richardson points to Ezekiel 38:17: “ Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? ” Richardson concludes:

    The question must be asked then—if Gog and Magog are spoken of by Israel’s former prophets prior to Ezekiel, then where are all of these references? We will be hard pressed to find any unless we do some serious stretching of the Scriptures. But if we take the position that Gog is the Antichrist, then it is very easy to find numerous passages about the Antichrist and his invading army throughout the prophets.

    In the American South, people still revere the Confederate battle flag. In some future dispute, if feelings are running high, then the flag might be used by those sympathetic with the Southern cause. Eastern Europeans, for example, used the Confederate flag when the Berlin Wall fell to symbolize its rebellion against communism. In similar fashion, those rebelling against Yahweh at the end of the Millennium most likely will use the same name as the battle before the thousand year period.

    The future Jewish temple and the outer courts, which will be occupied by Gog's armies.

  • Glander

    A fellow elder in our cong. was a heck of a nice guy and was genuinely caring to the older folks in the cong. But we all knew that he pretty much skipped over the deep " new light' or any complex WT doctrines. He could not explain how to 'splain the 607-1914 math, for example.

    Once, out of brotherly love, a couple of us cornered him and ask him to explain the Gog/Magog teaching. He stammered and hemmed and hawed until we broke out laughing and told him it was the best explaination we had ever heard. Then he joined in the laugh.

  • NewYork44M

    It is interesting that you bring up the Gog/MegGog thing. I gotta tell you, even at the peak of my embracing the "truth," I always thought the Watchtower description was pretty silly. At this point in my life, I don't remember the details - I just remember that this was something I did not want to get into a discussion with. I could never with a clear conscience explain what the society purported.

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    John Mann,

    Yes i believe they were prophesizing about Google.

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