How To Be Subversive While Knowing TTATT And Stuck Inside The Watchtower Corporation Confines?

by frankiespeakin 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Legacy

    Hi All, Wow, do I really like this topic. My suggestion is..1 Thess. paraphrase...Mind your business. You can also make comments that make them think. I once made a comment about Paul, when he would say, I became a jew when then were jewish, I became a gentile if he was talking to gentiles..etc...My comment was(which was a while back), that Paul was a spiritual chamelion...He became what his audience was but never compromised God's word.After the meeting folks came to me to say, hey, I never thought about it that way..The operative word here is THINK.. The thing is to get them to go to the scriptures themselves, & see the difference between the Orgs. interpretation & what God really is saying. Most of the friends feel safe at the KH. They are looking for paradise here on earth. As we all know, no such thing. Now we all know about the coming WT re: FDS & 1914..Let's take a look at Matt. 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. When was this? Hmm could it be before he went to heaven...was that in 1914. I'm just saying. Let none of us feel that God doesn't show individuals a new bright light as well...Sometimes the truth leads you to the truth. How many have read that and still said, he returned in 1914. I have yet to ask any of the friends about this scripture, because they will Jehovah'rize it to fit something that just don't make no sense. I don't agree with everything about the truth but it has a ring of truth in it..I don't believe in the trinity, I want so much to believe in the resurrection hope, (who doesn't want to come back) & many other things...but there are things I don't agree with as well. Do your studies, keep your opinions to yourself because as we know God will make it right (if he truly exist). Because I sometimes think the bible was written to make death easier to swallow..very scary to believe you live & die &&&& NEVER RETURN..that'll keep you up at night. Try to make comments that make them god..HMMMMMMMM. I do it all the time. My comments are in harmony with the scriptures it's just another way to look at it. Some folks don't like to rock the boat so their comments are sweet & syrupy all the time...One of my stumblers is Michael being Jesus...for some reason, that Hebrew 1st chapter just stays in my head which it says, to which angel did he ever say you are my son...I think that's how it goes..& I have a bunch of post-its all over my own bible where it points to maybe Mike isn't Jesus. But I don't say anything to anyone. Because one day there may be a bright light regarding that. I enjoy the friends & going out in service with them. I like my congregation, so for now, this is where I am...whether I stay or not...Time will tell... Man is imperfect all day don't look ANY PERFECTION THERE..Don't think you can change them, many have tried few have succeded. If the Catholic church is still in existance after all the controversy they have had, don't count on the Witnesses to be broken up, either. Be Well, Legacy

  • Legacy

    Hi All,

    From Legacy...I made paragraphs but it come out in one big paragraph...I'm sorry.

    Be Well,


  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    " if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. " -- Henry D. Thoreau

  • Separation of Powers
    Separation of Powers

    Well, if you mean "subversive" in the sense of undermining, then I would say the best thing you can do is absolutely nothing!

    There is nothing more powerful than your absence, particularly if you are or were a mainstay of the congregation.

    With your disappearance comes questions. With your continued disappearance comes conjecture and supposition.

    Some, some will say what you will expect, "they were weak," "there was always something about that person," " they are materialistic."

    But others, others will reflect on the reality of your absence particularly if you continue being the same old lovable person you are. They will wonder just why you disappeared. Yes, they may say or audibly agree with the conjecture and supposition, but inside, deep inside they are asking themselves questions, first about you....then about themselves.

    Subversion at its best!


  • frankiespeakin

    I guess one form of resistance is "murmuring" as in:

    A subdued or private expression of discontent or dissatisfaction this is something that the Watchtower is always trying to not do, they don't want elder's decisions questioned and neither do they want any murmurings about the Corporations because it can destroy morale among their ranks, it is bad for regemented unity to have murmurings but the murmurings have to be constructed in such a way as to avoid the judicial process.

    Also you might find some very sympathetic ears to your murmurings who in time may join forces with you but be pateint and carefull not to say too much too fast but in time maybe some coalitions will form making infectious spreads sorta like a self replicating thought viruses.

    What ever you can say no matter how little that will cause other to question the characters who make up the GBs, DOs, COs,Elders, is a plus but needs to be easily beleivable to your target audience and not sound like unreasonable critisism for it to do any good.

  • frankiespeakin

    How about never giving them a contribution and always order the most costly literature and never pay a cent. Seek ways to get some of your money back if you can through insurance claims and what not.

    Never volunteer for any project that the Corporation can profit from in the future.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    What is the point? I endured several years of nonbelief and was forced to attend and comply under threat of serious bodily imjury and no school. I did not fear school withdrawal but I believea judge would place me outside my parents' sphere with my circumstances. The stressors are so incredibly painful. Perhaps b/c I was born in. Maybe it is different with converted Witnesses.

    I suffered great distress, abdominal pains. Conditional love is not love. Of course, I had my mother and siblings. My extended JW family still loved me and looked the other way but I had no guarantee and expected the opposite.

    It is far better to fade slowly than be disfellowshiped. Witnesses persecute any one with any doubts or does not zealously proclaim Jehovah and his holy org at every second. My mom only managed to extricate herself b/c of her extensive Bethel knowledge. In many ways, a Bethel oriented fade may be easier than a KH fade. Within many other Christian denominations, one can disent or educated without retaliation. Roman Catholics allow some measured dissent, Anglicans embrace it, Presbyterians, Methodists. just about every mainstream Protestant religion.

    Witnesses are different. People were absolutely destroyed for far less in the Witnesses.

    I don't know the solution b/c I can't say just abandon and cut off family. On the other hand, the inner conflict, the feelings of being a good German messed with my mind. I was young and helpless but I wish I had the courage to just do it-walk away no matter the consequences. Perhaps it only me but lying about myself deep inside myself, caused me great harm. I regret it decades later. Of course, what do young people do in reality.

    I don't agree teaching or educating Witnesses help. What I believe happens is that they may hear a nugget here and a nugget there. The Internet allows them to do it privately. Rather than open their eyes and minds, they further retreat into the Witnesses. Time, circumstances, and perhaps the Holy Spirit, works in some cases.

    There was never a single point at which I doubted. It was an accumulation of things. First, my classmates and neighbors good conduct. Second, a host of rejections and insults. Third, the teaching that Jesus is a nobody. Fourth, Armageddon killed me and all the people I respected. It was never academic or intellectual with me. I was too young and had no access to sustained scholarship. If Elaine Pagels materialized in my life during my teen years, I would revile her and convinced myself she was Satan.

    Fundamnetally, my teachers, classmates, librarians, bus drivers, etc. showed me more love than the Witnesses. Puppies showed me more love. My own readings to prepare for college exposed me to a wider world. They were happenstance. Any list of antiWitness writings I would completely ignore.

    Maybe I was unique. Perhaps your situation is different. I would say it took about three hundred instances of cognitive dissonance before I realize the truth about the lying Truth.

  • frankiespeakin


    If Elaine Pagels materialized in my life during my teen years, I would revile her and convinced myself she was Satan.

    That's why subtle things might work for some as that is all that they can take in; anything too radical should be avoided as these make cult indoctrinated warning bells go off in someones head. Others who are a bit more open you can make faster in roads that cause doubt and weaken cult implanted defenses quicker.

    {{{Fundamnetally, my teachers, classmates, librarians, bus drivers, etc. showed me more love than the Witnesses. Puppies showed me more love. My own readings to prepare for college exposed me to a wider world. They were happenstance. Any list of antiWitness writings I would completely ignore.}}}

    So then some murmurings about the higher education ban, and how rediculous it is to beleive that Satan is out to get us through an earthly educational system that has brought about all this marvelous technology and understanding our world,,it might be very effective to undermining the corporation's hold on a person. It also opens the Governing Body to label of old backwards fuddy duddies who shouldn't be consider a faithful and especially not discreet slave type of person who has their best wellfare in mind.

  • ILoveTTATT

    Please read my original post and my other posts... I am trying to do exactly the same thing!

    You should watch "Inception"... the concepts are the same... Inception meant that you make the idea grow on its own without direct input...

    JW's have a "militarized brain" where, if they recognize you as a "foreigner" they will attack you... so you have to act like the others in the dream so you are not attacked....

    Hope you see the analogies between the movie and getting JW's to see TTATT...

    Here's some ideas:

    Attack other cults... they will love to chip in their hate for other cults. Perhaps, perhaps, one of them will THINK and say, hey, we do exactly the same thing!! Talk about Southpark (if they by chance have watched it) and Scientology, or talk about how Christian Scientists reject vaccinations... most don't know that JW's rejected vaccinations... so then you might tell them that... AFTER they have critiziced Christian Scientits...

    Say comments in the meeting that will get them to THINK... we will be reading Romans 1-3 next week so look up all you can about Salvation by Faith only (Romans 3-4) vs. Salvation by Works+Faith (James 2)... show them that the works were things such as helping others, giving to charity, etc (which will make them see, hopefully, that "works" is NOT necessarily preaching)

    Read up on AJWRB about the blood issue... tell them that you were researching what the WT says about blood fractions, and that you went on medical encyclopedias and they said that cryoprecipitate was, essentially, plasma without the water.... and then ask, isn't that weird? That it is a conscience matter to take plasma without the water, and plasma as a whole is prohibited? I don't get it!! (And then, you might say... I guess without the water it is not plasma so it is not blood... but say this only if they get militant)...


  • cedars

    Garner as much trust as you can from those higher up in the organization, thus increasing the likelihood that they will confide in you if there are any changes or, better still, show you documents that can subsequently be leaked (such as the "new light" Watchtower article).

    For those trapped inside, that's the most productive strategy I can think of.


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