MP: That the bodily resurrection of Jesus is accepted as valid Christianity by members of other religions isn’t true. Muslims believe somebody got switched and not the real Jesus died on the cross. Even Mark doesn’t believe in the resurrection, check 16:8+.
COLD
Oh, it’s true. Band didn’t say that all religions accepted the bodily resurrection of Jesus as valid Christianity; he just made a general statement. And just because Muslims don’t believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, they can, and do, accept that Christians believe it.
mP:
I think my reply is fair, it shows another tradition that tells us something quite different from xianity. Xians have been editing the bible for centuries after jesus. The Mormons themselves just invented a new story only 150 years. Im not trying to pick on Band, im just trying to add some useful info to the basic discussion. The story of jesus has been envolving and has never been stationary.
COLD:
And your point about Mark 16:8+ you say is an interpolation, I want to hear your views about why you don’t think Mark, of all those who witnessed the resurrection of Jesus would later say he didn’t believe it?
mP:
Im not saying its an interpolation, everybody is saying that. Even the NWT admits in the fine print that these verses did not exist in the original. Lets make that point clear, because i have no authority on making such statement. I can only quote the experts and everyone else who has studied the texts.
I think the first question you have to examine is just who gave you the text that you have read as the source of your stories ? The Nag Hamadi texts tell quite a different story about Jesus. The same goes for the dead sea scrolls. I have never heard of the WT ever discussing the contents of these texts which seems quite odd if one wishes to learn about jesus. Why would anybody want to ignore other texts from the same time and region as Jesus life ?
The simple answer is because they are troublesome and show the beliefs based on todays text are not the same as the past. The Essenes for example believed in two messiahs! They tell a story very similar to that of jesus but the time of their story is incompatible with our story of jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes
When you read these texts its plain to see your view of jesus has been shaped by the RCC. The xianities that followed further refined the books within the bible they wished to keep. Im not even discussing the stuff they make up that has no bible connection. I dont think its necessary to elaborate on them as we both know they are just made up stuff.
Back on Mark, the reason why theres no resurrection in original mark is because there never was one. People made up that story much later. Now isnt that a more sensible approach to any fantastic story of the ancient world ?
We already know the zombies walking around Jerusalem of Matt 28 (??) never happened. We also know the census is a fabrication. There are many other things that should appear in historical accounts from the gospels which have never appeared anywhere else. Isnt Matth just lying in the case of the zombies ? If we know Matt is a liar to rediculous extremes on multiple occasions, why beleive anything he says ?