Dualism in new WT theology? (page 2)

Thoughtless

Ah. Noted. I don't believe that if it is unconventional, it is necessarily wrong, but it is because it is illogical, or contradictory is what made me raise a red flag. Thanks for the insight, Satanus!

Rose Mary

This confusion is inevitable. Because Bible itself is not clear on this matter. In one place it sounds like materialism; yet in other places it implies dualism.--Ecclesiastes 12:7; John 5:24; 13:1; (also in the Wisdom of Solomon 8:19)

Vidqun

JWs are anti-spirit, especially when it is mentioned in connection with a human. See how they translate (and interpret) the following scriptures:

7 Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it. (Ecc 12:7 NWT)

30 When, now, he had received the sour wine, Jesus said, It has been accomplished! and, bowing his head, [he stopped breathing, footnote “delivered up the breath (spirit) NWT1950] he delivered up [his] spirit. (Joh 19:30 NWT)

22 But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels,

23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and [to the spirits of the righteous, NET] the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, (Heb 12:22, 23 NWT)

6 And he said to me, These words are faithful and true; yes, Jehovah the God of the inspired expressions of the prophets [God of the spirits of the prophets, NET] sent his angel forth to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. (Rev 22:6 NWT)

Oubliette

Thoughtless: Oubliette, danke for the compliment, you and DATA DOG are one of my favorites on JWN.

Actually, the Data-Dog and I are TWO of your favorite posters, unless I have multiple personality disorder and don't know it!!!

BTW, you have a PM!

Thoughtless

Oubilette, I didn't get the PM. Vidqun, given the environment that the first Century Christians were in, I think dualism is almost impossible to comeby in religions. It is an archetypical teaching, really.

Thoughtless

Oubilette, I didn't get the PM. Just got it bro.

DATA-DOG

" Along with this, I haven't been at a congregation gathering in a WHILE, but it is because I am not interested in cheesy acts at talent shows .... Instead, they would rather have a circlejerk about the GB ..."

ROLF!!!! I almost fell out of my chair!! The wasted hours of JW talent shows, I do mean " wasted" because I have to drink before hand. Lemonade and vodka leaves no evidence...

AnnOMaly

Am I the only one who sees this?

No, you're not. It smacked me in between the eyes a few years ago too. It is a major flaw. The earthly class members have a monistic nature, while those of the heavenly class have a dualistic one.

The inconsistency shows up in the Insight book.

it-2 pp. 1005-1006 Soul

Soul—A Living Creature.

As stated, man “came to be a living soul”; hence man was a soul, he did not have a soul as something immaterial, invisible, and intangible residing inside him. The apostle Paul shows that the Christian teaching did not differ from the earlier Hebrew teaching, for he quotes Genesis 2:7 in saying: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul [psy·khen′ zo′san].’ . . . The first man is out of the earth and made of dust.”—1Co 15:45-47.

The Genesis account shows that a living soul results from the combination of the earthly body with the breath of life. The expression “breath of the force of life [literally, breath of the spirit, or active force (ru′ach), of life]” (Ge 7:22) indicates that it is by breathing air (with its oxygen) that the life-force, or “spirit,” in all creatures, man and animals, is sustained. This life-force is found in every cell of the creature’s body, as is discussed under LIFE; SPIRIT.

it-2 p. 786 Resurrection

Resurrection of Christ’s “brothers.”

Those who are “called and chosen and faithful,” Christ’s footstep followers, his “brothers,” who are spiritually begotten as “God’s children,” are promised a resurrection like his. (Re 17:14; Ro 6:5; 8:15, 16; Heb 2:11) The apostle Peter writes to fellow Christians: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you.”—1Pe 1:3, 4.

Peter also describes the hope such ones possess as “precious and very grand promises, that through these you may become sharers in divine nature.” (2Pe 1:4) They must undergo a change of nature, giving up human nature to obtain “divine” nature, thus sharing with Christ in his glory. They must die a death like Christ’s—maintaining integrity and giving up human life forever—and then they receive immortal, incorruptible bodies like Christ’s by a resurrection. (Ro 6:3-5; 1Co 15:50-57; 2Co 5:1-3) The apostle Paul explains that it is not the body that is resurrected, but rather, he likens their experience to the planting and sprouting of a seed, in that “God gives it a body just as it has pleased him.” (1Co 15:35-40) It is the soul, the person, that is resurrected, with a body to suit the environment into which God resurrects him.

You can't have two different natures for two sets of humankind. If the soul = physical body + breath of life, and if the physical bodies of the heavenly class are dispensed with at death, then what exactly is resurrected ('stands up again')? How can they be termed 'souls' without a physical breathing body? What is the 'something' of the person that can exist without the physical body? Surely that 'something' is non-physical, intangible.

Thoughtless

DATADOG, I have my moments. But yeah, I mean, the fact that I couldn't question the GB really got me questioning the GB...ironically. Teenage rebellion? Maybe. I don't feel really invited to said circlejerks, I could never keep...rhythm. (SORRY FOR THE SMUT SIMON)

~Thoughtless

Thoughtless

Ann O' Maly, THANK YOU FOR THAT POST. Oh God, I can feel a little better now.

Dualism in new WT theology?

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