Symposium with a talk about "Human Apostates"

by Prime 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vidiot
    Prime - "If a person doesn't fit the description outlined in this talk, the talk isn't referring to you."

    An "apostate" (in the religious context of the term) is defined as one who has abandoned his or her religious faith (look it up).

    That's it.

    Not a monster. Not a supervillain. Not even "bad". Just someone who's left a religion.

    The DC presentation, however, explicitly portrays "apostates" as "like Satan", "unruly", using "wicked reasonings" and "poisonous lies", divisive, "liars and decievers", manipulative, and, of course, the ever-so-popular "mentally diseased"...

    There is no distinction whatsoever made between any former Jehovah's Witnesses (i.e. "apostates"), whether they were DF'd and didn't come back, DA'd, or faded; are angry, sad, or happy that they're gone; whether they feel stumbled by circumstances they've experienced while still in "God's visible Earthly organization", or even whether genuine mental or emotional health problems made their continued association impossible.

    As far as the WTS is concerned, all XJWs, ALL - no exceptions - are now to be labelled with this rhetoric and treated accordingly.


    Prove to me I'm wrong.

  • Vidiot
    Gopher - "...the WTS really wants their members to be very afraid, even of things that hardly even exist."

    All authoritarian high-control groups need an Other, a boogyman, an existential enemy...

    ...especially when said group is feeling acutely threatened by its own impending mortality.

    The more extreme (and ridiculous) the rhetoric, the more threatened they are feeling. This has happened over and over again throughout history; why should the WTS be any different?

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    "If a person doesn't fit the description outlined in this talk, the talk isn't referring to you."

    Fortunately for me, I'm a Superhuman Apostate! So that rubbish isn't referring to me.

  • Gopher

    : "Apostates profess to be followers of Jesus" -- So according to Prime, if you don't believe in Jesus or say that you do, you're not apostate.

    I'm an ex-JW who doesn't profess to follow Jesus and I don't claim to serve God. I guess that makes me less dangerous, as JW's apparently will not be persuaded by an atheist or skeptic.

    But I wanna be an apostate!! Why according to their definition can't I be one?

    I like the non-JW definition of apostate better, the one Vidiot provided in the above post. I'm definitely that kind of apostate and proud of it !!

  • Londo111

    Please review also the Watchtower publication that is commentary on Acts, look at Chapter 17.

    “Some . . . Became Believers” (Acts 17:4-9)

    8 Paul had already experienced the truthfulness of Jesus’ words: “A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have observed my word, they will observe yours also.” ( John 15:20 ) In Thessalonica, Paul met just such a mixed response—some were eager to observe the word, while others resisted it. Concerning those who reacted favorably, Luke writes: “Some of them [the Jews] became believers [Christians] and associated themselves with Paul and Silas, and a great multitude of the Greeks who worshiped God and not a few of the principal women did so.” ( Acts 17:4 ) Surely these new disciples rejoiced to have the Scriptures opened to their understanding.

    9 Though some appreciated Paul’s words, others gnashed their teeth at him. Some of the Jews in Thessalonica were jealous of Paul’s success at winning over “a great multitude of the Greeks.” Those Jews, intent on making Jewish proselytes, had instructed the Greek Gentiles in the teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures and looked upon those Greeks as belonging to them. Suddenly, though, it seemed that Paul was stealing these Greeks away, and right at the synagogue! The Jews were furious.


    By the same Watchtower logic about apostates, should the early Christians not spread their faith among people of their former faith? What did were the people of their former religion jealous? How did the people of their former religion react to those who apostatized? Would not going to the synagogue be just like an "apostate" going to the Kingdom Hall?

  • Vidiot
    Gopher - "I like the non-JW definition of apostate better, the one Vidiot provided in the above post."

    Thanks, but I can't claim credit for it, it's just from a dictionary.

    And technically, the WTS hasn't re-"defined" the word...

    ...rather, they've associated a whole slew of unfounded and exceedingly negative and egregious characteristics to the word, and thusly, an entire class of overwhelmingly unedeserving people.

    Listen to the presentation again and mentally replace the word "apostates" with "women" or "blacks" or "gays" and imagine some other religious leader trying to get away with a speech like that.

    He'd be f**king crucified in the media.

  • Londo111

    Replace ‘Apostates’ for Jews and it could easily be a Nazi rally. Hitler couldn’t have crafted a better speech.

  • Vidiot

    You know, back in the day, the vast majority of XJWs would have been perfectly content to be left in peace and - more importantly - to leave the WTS in peace.

    It was the WTS's need to portray itself as an embattled victim that ultimately created the online XJW community, the TTATT meme, and everything else...

    ...Old Man Jaracz paranoidly believed in a "Vast Apostate Army" poised to attack the WTS; it was ridiculous in the face of it. Ironically, the authoritarian policies that he set in stone during his tenure have led to a hostile mindset within the heirarchy of the Org that - for all intents and purposes - is actually creating one.

    Proof's in the pudding; the XJW community is uniting and cooperating in ways thet were never dreamed of ten years ago.

  • Londo111

    Really, if the Watchtower dropped the shunning, this place would be a shadow of its former self.

    As long as an individual is seperated from friends and family, a person can never truly let go.

  • villagegirl

    Its Hate Speech and should not be allowed in Canada.

    The Americans are much more tolerant of such speech.

    Canada does not think freedom of speech extends to hate speech

    and inciting of hatred or acts against an identified group,

    and that is what this talk does. Its disgusting and

    full of evil intent towards anyone who disagrees

    with the WT. It will incite parents against children

    it will incite the weak minded to persecute relatives,

    friends, isolted people who are having a hard time

    or who question anything. The witnesses like

    to think of themselves as "free" free to drink beer

    and whiskey, dance, go to movies, get drunk,

    party party party they think thats makes them

    free compared to conservative Christians

    who frown on drinking and dancing , but their slavery

    is slavery of thought, or not being able to say

    what you mean, to raise your hand in a meeting

    and challenge a Watchtower article or suggest a

    different interpretation of any scripture or say

    "I see no problem with my little girl joining brownies,

    so I am going to let her do it" or speaking out

    in meeting for college education.

    Can you imagine THAT kind of freedom ?

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