JW's now believe in The Rapture (page 2)

Oubliette

booker-t: JWs have always that I am aware of taught that the "annoited" might still have some on earth after Armaggeddon to usher in the new world.

Yes, but not any more. That is part of the point. I suggest you reread the WT quote.

BTW, cantleave has not (yet) posted on this thread. Yet another point on which you are confused.

That being said, I'm not playing "word games." I'll leave that to the GB and their Writing Department. They are forever changing doctrines and teachings, often by changing the meaning of ordinary words. For example, see these discussions of the Overlapping generation:

The fact that " JWs don't believe in the 'traditional' rapture" does not invalidate my point. The new teaching about the anointed is, as I said before, essentially the same as what fundamentalist Christians believe (even if JWs do NOT use the term).

The fact is that JWs only believe the Bible is written for "the anointed." So in reality their belief of what happens to the anointed is similar to what others mean by "The Rapture" for as you say "all christians." Remember, the "Other Sheep" don't go to heaven, they stay on Earth.

booker-t: Similarities in a doctrine does not make it belief in the doctrine.

Ok, that just doesn't even make any sense. If two groups believe similar doctrines, then they believe similar doctrines.

You're arguing words and missing the point.

prologos

booker -t

perhaps they did not claim to have been dogmatic in the past, but the July Wt is:

ilustrations and text:

gone to heaven BEFRORE Armageddon

marriage of the Lamb AFTER the battle.

doctrine from before: resurrected "anointed" will FIGHT WITH CHRIST at Armageddon.

Rapture or Resurrection :man* battlestations.

question: Can you have a Rapture without a Resurrection?

AndDontCallMeShirley

Booker-t: It is amazing how I read on this board how some ex-jws use a eye catching phrase to get the attention of posters but condemn JWs when they do the same thing

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Actually, I think the discussion thus far has been pretty fair, especially by the OP. No one has 'condemned JWs' or made dogmatic statements.

Note also that the OP didn't use one "[ ]" or "...." to make the WT excerpt say something it doesn't really say (unlike WT tactics). He simply quoted the WT and a discussion followed. Wow, how unreasonable.

They have speculated and have always said it is not "dogmatic" just their opinion.

Really? Then why do all JWs believe the same thing? And, test the whole 'it's just an opinion' theory by going to an Elder and saying you disagree with the WT's "opinion". Guess what'll happen next?

Incidentally, I'd love to see the quotes you're referring to, Booker. I don't think the WT has said "we're not being dogmatic" or "this is just our opinion" since CT Russell was the editor.

WT "opinions" only become such after a prophecy fails or a doctrine gets "new light-ified". Current teachings are never 'just an opinion'.

Oubliette

We cannot and should not be dogmatic about particulars. - The Watchtower, August 15, 1990, page 30

This is really ironic, because as ADCMS pointed out, disagreeing with "Current Truth" will get you DF'd faster than you can say "New Light!"

MrFreeze

Next thing you know they'll believe in the Trinity!

Comatose

I found this nugget too Obuillete. I mentioned it to a few and it was totally ignored or I was told that it wasn't new and they remembered it at a convention.

Crazyguy

Do they still teach that the 144,000 started to go to heaven in 1918? If so thats not biblical since in Thessalonians its written they all go together. Also it was mentioned in an earlier post but nowhere does it say they 144,000 are the actual ones that become Kings and Priests it says the ones that were killed as martyrs will be raised and made into Judges.

Faithful Witness

I found it interesting, all the new light in one magazine, culminating in the redefinition of the slave... And oh, by the way, we have another member on the GB! I think the new guy wants to be raptured, so they are changing the interpretation, or at least saying it's a possibility. They never have committed to any of this, of course. They dont know, and they admit it... But we just know it's the truth, even though were not really sure, since

"Pointedly, the Bible doesn't say."

"And notice the modest, reasonable language used to introduce this possibility: This May Be Taken as an indication."

maybe and may be are not the same meaning, especially when spoken by your mother. i searched to find that 1990 article, only to find them referring back to some other thing they said in 1928, and another footnote referring to a book published in 1942. No wonder no JW can keep up with this run around! Wow.

a watcher

"JW's now believe in The Rapture"

Not necessarily. They never said "rapture", and I don't think that's what they meant. The anointed MUST die, either naturally or unnaturally, to get to heaven, but no one knows exactly HOW they will die.

I think that they are downplaying the probable martyrdom of the anointed, so as not to upset the other sheep.

They are trying to get the other sheep to focus on their OWN salvation rather than be OVERLY concerned about what happens to the anointed.

kaik

I agree with a watcher on this. I remember from KH that the anointed will have to die first, and they will turn into spiritual being. Body in flesh cannot enter spiritual kingdom. Our KH also taught as that anointed will see their funeral, the tranformation is immediate as person passes from the human form to heavenly. I do not remember ever hearing Rapture. I encountered this teaching only in USA among various extreme denomination. Almost all major Christian denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, European Protestants) consider Rapture a heretical teaching. I have not seen in any WT publication teaching a Rapture along the way as is understand by eveangelical groups in USA.

JW's now believe in The Rapture

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