Jehovahs Witnesses beleifs and practices are based solely on the bible.....do they still claim that ?

by smiddy 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    @Smiddy

    I hear it all the time from my JW friend and this concept presents itself in many of his catch phrases. As a non-jw, his words are like sandpaper across my eardrums.

    "the TRUE religion"

    "true worship means worship that is based on the scriptures"

    "I don't go door to door promoting the organization, I talk about the BIBLE"

    Given what I've learned from all of you, the reality of the entrenchment sickens me.

    @Ding and @Smiddy

    This old light/new light is making a mayhem out of my conversations. In my attempts to show that the "old light" was just as Biblically based as it's antithetical new light, I showed my friend an old publication of nonsense (Millions Now Living Will Never Die) that had an entire index of scriptures supporting the nonsense. The title of the index was "Bible Citations in Substantiation" and this index of scriptures started on page 115 and continued through to page 124! This doesn't seem to matter. All, in it's entirety, is dismissed under the umbrella of "old light."

    @mP

    Whose perspective are you leveraging?

    The Protestants and their truth? (Catholics are basing their doctrines on information we don't accept as a contribution to truth.)

    The Catholics and their truth? (Those Protestants are basing their positions on information they've decided not to accept as a contribution to the truth, have rejected and deemed wrong. To arrive at truth, an awareness of the picture between Old and New Testataments should be used as insight.)

    How can one prove who is right? Did the Creator Himself discuss this with either group? Don't think so....

    Coming outside of denominational variations, consider your statement from the perspective of:

    The Jews and their truth (a New Testament? You're kidding me... Our scriptures are 6,000 years old. Christians & Muslims are basing their assumptions on information WE don't accept, have collectively rejected and therefore is WRONG),

    And hey, let's throw the Muslims in there (Christians have corrupted the story of the prophet Jesus so the New Testament is therefore hogwash. The prophet Mohommad's accounting was written as he lived and therefore his accounting is most accurate. We'll take the chunks of their scriptures and use the ones we think are accurate.)

    Takes ME over to 1 Corinthians 3 where Paul called the wisdom of men folly.

    Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, i “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

    A person's truth is limited to the scope of the knowledge acquired. The knowledge acquired is only what one has the time and the inclination to put before them. With our inherent biases and inability to go back in time to KNOW, there's absolutely no way one can arrive at truth.

    With so many variables at play, I'll be DARNED if I'll base my life on the opinion of one man or even a group of men.

    I wish all would get out of their own righteousness, accept ignorance and just try to do the right thing by everyone.

    *Edit* Why do I hear Paul McCartney singing "Imagine" in the background of my last sentence? LOL

  • jwleaks
  • tec
    tec

    That was one of the bait and catch arguments that hooked me 53 years ago and I was wondering if they still make that absurd claim .? That their religion is based on first century chritianity .!

    They did as of 4-5 years ago, which is when I did my study. That is what appealed to me as well... though I had not had any intention of joining; just of doing a bible study, so I could know what was actually written... opposed to what religions and men TEACH. (I recognize the irony, that the wts is not in harmony with the book they claim to be based upon either)

    The prodigal son is a good example... that is in complete conflict with their reinstatement process.

    Their memorial observance also is not biblical in the slightest.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • blondie
    blondie

    The word the WTS hides behind is "principles."

    *** w11 11/1 p. 7 Ten Questions About Sex Answered ***

    9 Is there anything wrong with phone sex, “sexting,” or cybersex?

    ? Answer: Phone sex involves talking inappropriately about sex or listening to explicit erotic messages on the phone. “Sexting” is a term that refers to using cell phones to send erotic images and sexually explicit text messages to others. Cybersex involves erotic interaction on the Internet.

    The Bible does not specifically discuss modern practices such as these. But it does say: “Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among you, just as it befits holy people; neither shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting, things which are not becoming.” (Ephesians 5:3, 4)

    *** w11 11/1 p. 7 Ten Questions About Sex Answered ***

    10 What is the Bible’s view of masturbation?

    ? Answer: The Bible does not specifically mention masturbation—the deliberate self-stimulation that produces sexual arousal and orgasm. However, God’s Word commands Christians: “Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, [and improper] sexual appetite.”—Colossians 3:5.

    *** w01 2/1 p. 5 Finding Security in a Risk-Filled World ***

    While God’s Word does not specifically mention tobacco use and drug abuse, its principles can protect us from these practices. For instance, 2 Corinthians 7:1 advises: “Let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit.” There is no question that tobacco and drugs pollute, or defile, the flesh with many harmful chemicals. What is more, God wants our bodies to be “holy,” which means pure and clean. (Romans 12:1) Do you not agree that applying these principles will reduce a significant risk to one’s life?

    *** lv chap. 8 pp. 93-96 pars. 19-25 God Loves Clean People ***

    To keep ourselves physically clean, we need to avoid defiling habits and practices, such as smoking, abusing alcohol, and the nonmedical use of addictive or mind-altering substances. The Bible does not specifically name all the unclean and disgusting habits and practices that are prevalent today, but it does contain principles that enable us to perceive how Jehovah must feel about such things. Because we know Jehovah’s view of matters, our love for him moves us to take the course that brings his approval. Let us consider five Scriptural principles.

    20 “Since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear.” (2 Corinthians 7:1) Jehovah wants us to be free of practices that pollute our fleshly body and damage our spirit, or dominant mental inclination. We must therefore avoid addictive behaviors that are known to be harmful to physical and mental health.

    21 The Bible gives a powerful reason for us to “cleanse ourselves of every defilement.” Notice that 2 Corinthians 7:1 begins by saying: “Since we have these promises.” What promises? As mentioned in the preceding verses, Jehovah promises: “I will take you in. And I shall be a father to you.” (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18) Just imagine: Jehovah promises to put you under his protective care and to love you as a father does a son or a daughter. But Jehovah will fulfill these promises only if you avoid defilements of “flesh and spirit.” How foolish it would be, then, to allow any disgusting habit or practice to rob you of such a precious and close relationship with Jehovah!

    22 “You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.” (Matthew 22:37) Jesus singled out this commandment as the greatest of all. (Matthew 22:38) Jehovah deserves such love from us. To love him with our whole heart, soul, and mind, we must avoid practices that could shorten our life or dull our God-given thinking abilities.

    23 “[Jehovah] gives to all persons life and breath and all things.” (Acts 17:24, 25) Life is a gift from God. We love the Giver, so we want to show respect for the gift. We shun any habits or practices that are detrimental to our health, for we recognize that such practices show a gross disrespect for the gift of life.—Psalm 36:9.

    24 “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 22:39) Unclean habits and practices often affect not only the practicer but also those around him. For example, exposure to secondhand smoke can have a harmful effect on nonsmokers. An individual who hurts those around him is violating the divine requirement that we love our neighbor. He also belies any claim that he loves God.—1 John 4:20, 21.

    25 “Be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers.” (Titus 3:1) In many lands, the possession or use of certain drugs is a violation of the law. As true Christians, we do not possess or use illegal drugs.—Romans 13:1.

    *** g02 11/22 p. 9 Wisdom for Life in a Complex World ***

    We listen to God by reading and applying his written Word. True, the Bible does not specifically address all the complex medical and scientific issues facing us today. Nevertheless, its principles, which endure forever, can help us to arrive at sound conclusions.—1 Peter 1:25.

    *** gm chap. 12 pp. 165-166 A Higher Source of Wisdom ***

    Wise Principles

    8 What, though, if we face a situation that is not specifically mentioned in the Bible? Often, we find broad principles to guide us. For example, many at some time in their lives face a decision regarding the habit of smoking tobacco. Since tobacco was unknown in the Middle East in Jesus’ days, the Bible does not mention it. Nevertheless, there are appropriate Bible principles to help us make a wise decision in this matter.

    9 Smoking tobacco, while reportedly pleasurable, actually involves inhaling concentrated pollutants into the lungs. A smoker pollutes his body, as well as his clothes and the air around him. In addition, smoking is an addiction. People who want to stop often find it very difficult. With this in mind, we can look to the Bible for help in reaching a wise conclusion about smoking tobacco.

    10 First, consider the problem of addiction. Paul, when speaking about foods, said: “I will not let myself be brought under authority by anything.” (1 Corinthians 6:12) Paul was free to eat any kind of food, but he knew that some people back there had sensitive consciences. So he said he was not so “addicted” to certain foods that he could not give them up if he had to in order to keep from stumbling others. If a person cannot stop smoking—or chewing—tobacco, he is definitely ‘under its authority.’ So Paul’s statement on the matter of food is a good guideline for tobacco use. We should not allow ourselves to become enslaved by a habit.

    11 Second, consider the matter of pollution. The Bible says: “Let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit.” (2 Corinthians 7:1) Smoking is without doubt a defilement, or a pollution, of the flesh. The seriousness of this pollution is seen in the fact that, according to the World Health Organization, it causes more than a million people to die prematurely each year. If we follow the Bible principle about staying clean from defilements of the flesh, we will be protected from the serious health hazards of smoking, as well as drugs and other defilements.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs and practices are based solely on the bible.

    Then again what Christian based faith doesn't proclaim that .....they all do one way or another.

    Lets be clear and honest the WTS and its various leading orchestrators, set about establishing

    doctrines/theological teachings that would intensionally draw attention to themselves and their

    published literature.

    Have you ever wondered why there was no other Christian based religion that made the proclamation that Christ

    had invisibly appeared in 1914 ?

    Sometimes words written on the front cover of books and magazines aren't necessarily strongly contained as viable

    truths but are created to draw attention to those pieces of literature.

    This was very much the case with the WTS. going as far back as C T Russell at the turn of the century.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Jehovah Witness beleifs are based soley on who is running the corporation and what ever convnient interpetation of the bible they can come up with that favors policy that is good for the corporation's solvency, bottom line the buck stops there.

  • mP
    mP

    Never:

    @mP

    Whose perspective are you leveraging?

    The Protestants and their truth? (Catholics are basing their doctrines on information we don't accept as a contribution to truth.)

    The Catholics and their truth? (Those Protestants are basing their positions on information they've decided not to accept as a contribution to the truth, have rejected and deemed wrong. To arrive at truth, an awareness of the picture between Old and New Testataments should be used as insight.)

    How can one prove who is right? Did the Creator Himself discuss this with either group? Don't think so....

    mP:

    Im just pointing out that 2000 years is a long time anbd everybody has modifying the text that is part of the bible from the beginning. We will never no the 'correct' or right text because we dont have hte original. That is an impossible task. All that we do know for sure is we dont have the original and it has been changed countless times. i was trying to point how history has guided these changes. As circumstances change , the kings of the church make stuff up for their advantage. it happened with josiah when he "found" the lost torah and it continues to repeat since then.

  • mP
    mP

    @Never

    Takes ME over to 1 Corinthians 3 where Paul called the wisdom of men folly.

    mP:

    I personally have no time for aresholes like Paul, simply because instead of helping the runnaway slave O in philemon he tells him to go back. at no stage does he write a letter back or try and tell everyone slavery is wrong and evil.

    Slaves were raped, killed, injured and the victims of violence. if we subsitute slavery with another evil, say pedophilia would anyone have any respect for Paul ? I know slavery was the custom, but why take advice from a man with such flawed backward thoughts and morals.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    @mp

    Im just pointing out that 2000 years is a long time anbd everybody has modifying the text that is part of the bible from the beginning. We will never no the 'correct' or right text because we dont have hte original.

    Ah, okay....

    instead of helping the runnaway slave O in philemon he tells him to go back. at no stage does he write a letter back or try and tell everyone slavery is wrong and evil.

    Aw, don't make me dislike Paul!!!!! I had completely forgotten that story! I just spent 6 minutes and 37 seconds very carefully considering this highly detailed accounting.

    A quick glance of cited sources in Wikepedia notes that slaves of the Roman Empire were anywhere from laborers to highly educated and skilled with teaching, accounting and even physician positions. In fairness, I see no evidence of Onesimus' lot in life that pushes towards laborer no physician. Also, I read that in the Roman empire, slaves who ran could not legally work anywhere else in Rome - except for Paul I suppose who was aging when this was written.

    Could it have been that Onesimus wanted to return and Paul was trying to help him do so? Could he have left family or loved ones? Heck, do we know anyone that has run from their oppressor only to return for the sole purpose of being reunited with family and friends? Are people who leave their oppressor always free? Was Onesimus really returning against his will?

    For me, this passage reads like the president of a firm telling a manager how he WILL be treating another employee within the manager's department.

    Hey been thinking about you! I hear you're really developing well around here. (v 1- 7)

    You know I can direct you what to do what I'm about to ask, but I'm going to leave you with some dignity. I have this kid.. almost like a kid to me... who was working in your department and had some challenges. I hear you called him useless? He's been working with me and I think he's great... yeah I know he's YOUR employee and I have to let him go... I wanted your consent to use him, but I didn't want your consent to be compulsory... given my position and all. But now with the development and training I gave him, I'm convinced he'll work out for you from now on. By they way, I need for you to treat him like you'd treat me, got it? If there are any problems give them to me and I'll take care of them. I'm SURE you'll take care of this. Btw, dinner at your place on Thursday night? (v 8-22)

    OH! and the golf buddies said to say hi. (v 23-25)

    Paul sounds like a bully to me! *grin*

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    @ Smiddy

    Here's one that bothers me...

    The notion that a designated period of time formally witnessing is scriptural.

    I attempted to ask if my spending my natural day casually mentioning what Christ promised is scriptural but the conversation had already crashed.

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