What I've been wanting to say about doubt and faith

by jgnat 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  return of parakeet

  From the movie "Doubt." Sister Beauvier, a fire-breathing dragon of a nun, has succeeded in ridding the school of Father Flynn, a pedophile 

  priest. At the end of the movie, she expresses her doubts, not about whether she was wrong about Father Flynn (she wasn't), but about her 

  faith in a church that allowed such abuse to continue without any real consequence. It's the most poignant, most human and most real 

  moment in the film:

  Sister James: I wish I could be like you. Sister Beauvier: Why? S. James: Because I can't sleep anymore. S. Beauvier: Maybe we're not supposed to sleep so well. They made Father Flynn pastor of Saint Jerome. S. James: Who?

  S. Beauvier: The bishop. Appointed Father Flynn pastor of Saint Jerome Church and School. It's a promotion.

  S. James: You didn't tell them? S. Beauvier: Oh, I told our good monsignor. I crossed the garden, and I told him. He did not believe it to be true. S. James: Then why did Father Flynn go? What did you say to make him leave? S. Beauvier: That I had called a nun in his previous parish, that I had found out his prior history of infringements. S. James: So you did prove it? S. Beauvier: I made no such call. S. James: You lied?

  S. Beauvier: Yes. S. James: But if he'd had no such history, the lie wouldn't have worked. S. Beauvier: His resignation was his confession. He was what I thought he was. And he's gone. S. James: I can't believe you lied.

  S. Beauvier: In the pursuit of wrongdoing, one steps away from God. Of course, there is a price.

  S. James: I see. S. Beauvier: Oh. Sister James. 

  S. James: What is it, Sister?

  S. Beauvier [collapsing and weeping]: I have doubts. I have such doubts. 

  Doubt is what keeps us human, humble, and compassionate.
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  jgnat

  I love watching Meryl Streep act. She is such a chameleon. That movie was strong.

  Tec/tammy cannot entertain doubt in her Christ. The scriptures she trusts say that she must not. She's in a chinese finger trap of her own making, a cognitive loop. The words weave in and out but they don't go anywhere. Trapped.
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  tec

  You're not owning it as far as saying you won't be the judge.

  I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

  I am not the judge. I cannot say. I truly cannot. God may have mercy upon whomever He wishes... and He and His Son may make allowances for people on grounds that I know nothing of... regardless of what I think on the matter. So I don't even try to go there. It would be wrong to do so, and it would be me speaking on my own authority, which means absolutely nothing.

  With all your qualifications, really, there is no incentive to "Follow Christ".

  Well, I don't follow Christ for an incentive or reward. I follow Him because I love Him, and have faith in Him.

  That being said... there is joy and peace and strength in having union with Him. There is great joy in serving the one that you love, and in being able to continue to serve with him, in the kingdom, as one of his brothers.

  He has helped me in my personal life and with my family, he has taught me amazing things... and He is still teaching me. He has poured his spirit upon me, in love, so that i have tasted even if just a small amount, of the great and incredible love and peace and joy that we will have in the kingdom; a gift that he gave to me not too long ago. He has given me brothers and sisters in fellowship, who I truly love, and know they love me.

  But I never followed Him for any gain. I followed Him solely because I love Him. In fact, the first time I received a blessing from Him, I was at first awed and thankful... it benefited those I love dearly. But I did get a bit scared this first time... afraid that i might start to want to work for a reward, rather than from love. But i would not want someone i loved to be afraid to accept a gift from me to them, and it just took me a little while to come to that.

  And those qualifications are gifts of mercy and love to others, in addition to life for his brothers and sisters... I would suggest that those are pretty good incentives to love someone. Loving someone is a good incentive to want to serve them, and wanting to serve all those that He loves also.

  "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teachings. My father will love Him, and we will come and make our home with them."

  Peace,

  tammy
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  soft+gentle

  enjoyed that video jgnat. but it is unfrotunate that Lesley Hazelton sets doubt and conviction in opposition and associates conviction with fundamentalism. Lesley Hazelton also wants to suggest that doubt be elevated to the level that real faith and doubt go together. the problem I have with this is that if doubt subsisted in faith an individual would not act. Indeed once Mohammad got over his disorienting experience he remained faithful to its message and acted against social injustice thoughout his life (Lesley Hazelton) but in accordance with his faith/conviction. No doubts there!

  Secularly conviction shouldn't harbour doubt either as real conviction waits and explores unrelated domains to find the truth it seeks even if it is a long time coming. Ultimately I agree with Lesley's line of reasoning about peace but it won't come from doubting one's convictions.
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  jgnat

  I'm through pointing at your blind spot, tec. I know why you won't understand.

  soft+gentle, I believe doubt can exist beside faith. It guards against excess. I'll share a small story, a gift really, that I received in the last year. It is easy to sympathize with the unwashed poor, as long as they live far enough away that we don't have to rub shoulders with them. So we have our charities set up to save the Starving Children of Africa. This is compassion in action, and should mark the life of a "Christian" or humanist. I got to wondering, though, about the poor at our back door, the local native American population who were displaced to allow for white expansion. They are right here, on our doorstep, often just as desperately poor, decimated by disease, addictions, and a horrific social disruption. How do we typically respond? With contempt. How dare they sit on our doorstep as a living testament to our ancestor's cruelty, an excuse for guilt, a pimple in the face of prosperity?

  If I am truly trying to live the compassionate life, I must come to know these people next door, to understand their humanity as well as I know my own.

  The gift, the story I have, was an opportunity to work for the local Native community. My job being what it is, I had a chance to rub shoulders with it's leaders, and to dig deep in to their origins and recent history.

  I found out why they are absent from the local white congregations.

  Moving a wealthy, industrialized population right beside a subsistence community is bound to disrupt - and nearly destroy - the native population. We mowed over their grazing fields and gathering grounds. We assumed throwing money their way would compensate for losing an entire generation to addictions. Our contempt remains, feeding a beaten community more reasons to doubt their self-worth.

  The people themselves, are a unique group who by reason of geography and history, have not signed treaty. This means they have had to organize, raise funds, and rebuild their community largely on their own. This is a native band that is more organized, more savvy, and farther along their way to self-determination than many.

  Coming to understand, really understand, these people is the gift I received. I recognize the withered old woman too shy to enter the store, waiting for her grandson, to be a treasured elder in her own community. Greet her with a smile and she might grace you with a little joke. Honor her as a fellow human being and she may meet your eye.

  I credit doubt, that questioning of all that I take for granted, for allowing me to ask that question, to peer in to my own blind spot, and to change.
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  soft+gentle

  jgnat

  I credit doubt, that questioning of all that I take for granted, for allowing me to ask that question, to peer in to my own blind spot, and to change.

  I definitely agree with this kind of questioning jgnat. and thanks for telling us about your gift.
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  new hope and happiness

  jgnat back to my post of 8 days ago and your kind reply. Would you not agree that faith is not about true or false?

  I mean is not truth about how it makes us feel, if truth makes us feel important then its true?

  Would you not say on the list of priorities to make our life worthwhile, truth is not high on the list?

  N.H. A.H.
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  jgnat

  First of all, faith is a tricky English word. It is multipurpose, which leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. From Merriam-Webster:

  a: allegiance to duty or a person :loyalty

  b (1):fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions 2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust 3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially: a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith> See, I can believe something with strong conviction, even outside the religious realm, as in, I have faith the sun will continue to rise from the East. It is linguistically accurate, and from experience and understanding of science, has a very strong potential to be true. Scans have found that the part of our brain that stores facts is very close to the part of our brain that holds strongly held convictions. This might explain why, on emotionally charged subjects where people hold strong convictions (abortion kills babies; banning abortions interferes with the woman's right to choose), the arguments are fierce and seemingy unresolvable. Now truth is something I have wrestled away from the WTS. The "Truth" is not in a place or with a certain people. It certainly does not tack with the winds of change. I reserve truth for what can be tested. I would even wrestle truth away from Jesus (I am the way, the truth and the light). Truth is not an embodiment. If I were to take definition 2b(1) above, faith steps in the gap of what we know to be true (my absolute, tested true as described above). Faith should not be in opposition of what is true, only acknowledging that a leap is required to trust it. Accepted truth based on emotion, pride? Heaven forbid. Truth is high on my list. I reawakened my reasoning in order to divine what is wrong with the Watchtower position. I wrangled for years re-examining my beliefs about what was true. Now, granted, there are many many people who float through life without giving their firmly established convictions a good shake. I'm just not one of them.
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  new hope and happiness

  jgnat thanks for your reply...hey i am an actual multi millionaire. Well i was at one time. It was all invested in the dollers pounds shillings and pence of the Watchtower corporation.it was only a problem when i wanted to withdraw my investment...my investment was a congregation of dreamers who sold me the opposite of a typical salesmans pitch...but my faith was the same salesmans pitch ....and that something sale was sold with faith i invest in with out a guarantee.

  Now i call that a risk investment in the land of tomorrow where things maybe ....
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  jgnat

  Interesting thought, NHAH. I once did some deep thinking about the attraction of lottery tickets. Besides the careful placing of the odds to hook addicts (you've won another ticket!), lotteries are in the business of selling dreams. I mean, look at the economics of it and it is obvious that the money flows one way (in to the hands of the lottery). So why do people persist? The tickets give the person permission to dream.

  There also might be something in game theory to explain people's persistent over-estimation of their chances to win.

  I decided I could dream without the help of a ticket.