Here's the thread I was talking about. Read it, think about it, do like what was done it.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=25423&site=3
I want to talk to a friend HELP
by lv4fer 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Carmel
Jbean?
"Spiritually concerned..."? What the h is that? Maybe intellectually curious or emotionally scared shitless, but hey, there ain't nothing spiritual about JW mental masturbation.
carmel (ludite w/o spirit)
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Hyghlandyr
Rhett I think you summed it up best. I had a thread going a few days ago about how to get people who are still witnesses, to talk to their disfellowshipped family members at least on occasion. The simplest thing to do is not get disfellowshipped if you can avoid it. I have, and by speaking plainly with the elders. But a key here is, I used the watchtower's website in the FAQ where it says plainly, they do not shun 'former members' and I pointed that out to the elders, which I had on my screen, each time they asked me if I wanted to DA myself.
However it sounds like iv4fer is not in my circumstances. If you are still going perhaps your best bet is to just gradually back off. If the elders come over dont get into a diatribe about why the witnesses are wrong. It wont save them and it will only ensure that you will not be able to 'help' them in the future. Personally christianity is as much nonsense as the witnesses, in fact that is probably why they are nonesense. However, if you are a christian, you believe perhaps jesus said to be wise as serpents. Now, not later, when you are banging your head, is the time for you to be wise.
You have been a witness, and so have your friends, for however long you have. Years most likely. They are not going anywhere and if you really want to 'help' them, then you need to keep yourself in good standing. Even if you gradually stop going, at least you wont be disfellowshipped. Then when the time comes that they are ready, and they have doubts, or they are disfellowshipped for something, or near to it, they will remember that you were always a listening ear.
Get disfellowshipped and you blow it.
On the chat rooms, even though I am a known apostate, I am also known to not be disfellowshipped or disassociated. I am as well known for not trying to impose a course of action on a person. A witness knows that they can come to me and I will honestly give them all sides of an issue as I see it.
When the entire U.N. thing broke out everyone was all up in arms about it, and still are, except I think for Cyg and me. A witness msged me and asked what I thought and what was the situation. I explained it to them as best I could. Said I do not have all the facts. As to why the watchtower was an NGO I stated I had no clue, but I understood that they were claiming it helped them with research. Perhaps it allowed them to sit on human rights forums.
Did this make them hypocrits I was asked. Maybe, probably, but who cares, we all have our hypocrisies. In my opinion I told the person, the society, and any religous group, has a responsibility first to their members to protect them, then later to worry about whether they are being hypocritical. If that is what the watchtower society did, good for them.
I didn't hear from the witness for a while. The next time I saw them they told me they were no longer a witness. Because of the U.N. fiasco. This was of course not my personal goal to make the witness leave, but if it were, then chiding the witness, going overboard with the witnesses, or the society, giving a deluge of other ways the society is hypocritical would utterly have failed.
With my wife and other witnesses I have met, I take an entire hands off approach. The witnesses in my book are pretty much the same as every other group. I am amoral. I do not need to save them, and while I want a cult, I prefer it to be a non-christian sex cult. So having a bunch of witnesses wouldn't help me. All of this has given me the freedom to let them have their freedom. Go to the hall, leave, do as you will, shall be the whole of the law.
And with my wife it has succeeded. That and that my friends are here a lot, so she is seeing that they are nice people, that others besides witnesses, can be trusted, and can be caring and helpful individuals. Someone suggested getting them to meet more people..that I think has been most successful in my case. Especially since I am not trying to get her to leave, just not give her entire life to them.
But, get yourself dfed and I have no advice, that is where I am floudering, thus the reason I started a post a few days ago, as I said at the top here, in order to find ways to get actives, speaking with dfed family members and friends. Have a little patience, their salvation might come slowly but it will only come if you are able to help, it wont come from you if they have to shun you.
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desertflower
You have received alot of good advice. Becareful who you talk too
my husband and I talked only too our kids. One of our daughters
was so upset with us she told me she was going to talk to the
elders. I told her if we needed help we would talk to them.
But she decided to talk to them anyway and of course we had an
elder meeting before we knew what happened. So don't trust your
family if you don't want to be turned in. We are being shunned
by all the so called friend we have ever had . We were in 47 yrs.
Important to make friends before you leave. Handle with care.
desertflower -
desertflower
We are not da nor df but still shunned by all.
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lv4fer
Thank you all for the great advice. It's really hard to play the double role, I'm not a good liar, my one friend asked me the other day why I've missed so many meetings lately, usually I use the work excuse, which in my case can be true, she then said well you need to cut back in your work, it's affecting your spirituality. Her daughter is very close friends with mine and she made a comment like I was beginning to think you were going to stop coming to meetings. I had to laugh to myself because I would love that to be the case, I just dread going to any meetings at all. It took all that I could muster up to say oh no thats not it I've just been busy. How long does it take to fade? 6 months, a year? District assembly is coming up, I'm expected to attend, I would rather go to the dentist!!! HOw do you people keep up the double profile?
"The reward for conformity was that everyone liked you except yourself."
Rita Mae Brown
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MegaDude
You said:
my one friend asked me the other day why I've missed so many meetings lately, usually I use the work excuse, which in my case can be true, she then said well you need to cut back in your work, it's affecting your spirituality.
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Actually it's being a JW that is hazardous to your spirituality.
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You said:
How long does it take to fade? 6 months, a year? District assembly is coming up, I'm expected to attend, I would rather go to the dentist!!! HOw do you people keep up the double profile?
------------------------------------------It depends on what consequences you're willing to bear. Personally, I stopped all in one swoop. Unless your former elders are fanatical, they likely will not hunt you down and DF you, unless you start spreading anti-JW views among your JW acquaintances. If the elders or others start asking you questions, or stop by to inquire, you simply tell them you're busy, or you have questions you are not comfortable sharing with them. Be polite, be nice, but be firm. They will try to get you to tell them your specific reasons. Smile, and politely refuse. Thank them for stopping by.
If you wish to maintain contact with people who are JWs, then you have your work cut out for you. Ask yourself what these relationships are worth. To stay in good with them, you may need to attend occasional meetings or assemblies. If you feel the relationships are worth that (I didn't) then keep up your appearances.
Otherwise, in my opinion, it's like quitting smoking. Stop once and for all and don't look back. -
QUEENIE
EVERYONE HAD GOOD ADVICE/when my mom stopped attending the pioneers sistas would make visits nd my mom would look out a window and then run to the back bedroom and start up her sewing machine and when dad would yell PAT Fitch is here she had an excuse MOM was hard of hearing and buzy sewing on something for him and he did not wont her to stop doing that.NOW me.I have me a memorized speech I AM DIssaoc TURNED APOSTATE you talk to me and you is in big trouble (darn honestly sweet 90 % of the time)so it is harder on them than it is on me...GOD loves me and so do I..hey it is their rule they made up not me !!!! (((((())))))
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dungbeetle
That's what a alot of people do, including some of my family. They attend the Memorial and the Sundays of the conventions, get the magazines, and that's it. If they are asked any questions, they just say: "I'm rearranging my schedule so I can attend more meetings." or: "I have been getting and reading the magazines, they are very encouraging <gag> and I will try to get to more meetings.
Usually works. That way you don't burn your bridges. And NEVER talk about the JW religion to any JW's---ever!!!
JW"s that 'want to know' are perfectly capable of going to the library and taking out books on their own. They are not children. They are brain dead and brainwashed but they are not children.
If push comes to shove, they can always be directed to silentlambs and AJWRB which are run by a JW in good standing.( not df'd or da'd) I would only do that as a last resort, like if you thought you would never see them again anyway.
Three assemblies and the Memorial (with drugs) are worth it to some to maintain those friendships, or at least contacts.
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rhett
Desertflower talked about being turned in by her daughter. My best friend and his now exwife got turned in by her mother because they told her they had problems believing the bible is inspired and had slacked off attendance wise. It was just supposed to be a private thing where they talked to someone they respected because they were having problems with their beliefs and she turned it over to the elders. That nice private conversation with the person who is supposed to care more for you than anyone else (mom) turned into her ratting them out to the elders, my friend and his wife getting disfellowshipped, and Amy's brother telling his children that she was once very close to that they couldn't see aunt Amy because she doesn't love Jehovah anymore.
I think that story alone demonstrates what can, and most likely will, happen if you express your doubts to your friends.