Follow up to my Patterson call

by Mulan 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman comply with Caesar. Interesting that the "donation" arrangement has been implemented only in those countries that attempted to tax "sales" of religious literature. Isn't this "donation" arrangement in reality a tax dodge, so the Society can avoid "paying Caesar's things to Caesar"? Hmmmm? I'm sure that "Caesar" NEVER told the Society to go to a donation arrangement. All "Caesar" did was say that since the WTBTS was engaged in "selling" religious literature for a profit, they'd better pony up the taxes due on such sales.

    And, as far as the "costs" of printing go, have you ever considered the actual printing costs of the literature and how it compares to the "donations" received?

    All labor is, no wages, no Social Security taxes, no 401K plans. Materials are pretty cheap when purchased in quantity. Most publishing companies incur the most cost through labor and advertising as well as distribution costs. The WTBTS' costs in these areas are either negligible or non-existent. I had seen some stats on these costs a couple of years ago. Magazines cost about 4/100ths of a cent to produce, and books were about 10 cents to 25 cents. CDs cost only a few cents for materials, and copying costs are almost non-existent.

    Now.....what are the "donations" that are "suggested" for this literature? I don't know the latest suggested donations....but I'm sure that most publishers feel "compelled" to donate.....much more than the actual printing costs. Additionally, they incur their own personal costs in gasoline and auto maintenance, as well as bookbags, shoes, etc. along with their time to distribute.....this information.

    As far as the magazines being highly informative....... Get real! We all know that the information contained therein is either regurgitated and frequently reprocessed and edited information from other sources, or it is religious propaganda. This info is not exactly earth-shattering stuff.

  • dungbeetle

    What is it with these so-called Witnesses that have no access to Witness publications?

    The official Watchtower spin about the donation arrangement is:

    "It brings us into harmony with the rest of the world".

    That's also their spin regarding the Mags not being mailed anymore. That and the high cost of postage.

    I love these people that are Pro-Watchtowerites that have no idea what's goin on at the kingdom hall and have no access to their own literature. They don't even lie well anymore.

  • spender

    I love this stuff about not being required to do donate money. Try using that line when the elder in charge of accounting is telling the cong for the 3rd week that if they don't "donate" they're going to be in debt. Even though you're not required to, everyone knows they still have to. I also love it when they set up things like "local needs" funds in the cong, for the people who are too lazy to get jobs. I knew some people in a hall in Maryland that were getting that money...there was no reason why they didn't have a job. They were just plain lazy, and everyone else was supporting them. They weren't even pioneers or even auxilary pioneers!

  • LDH

    I already like ThatSucks.

    heh heh.


  • JT

    Jehovahs Witnesses do not sell magazines for a corporation

    says Xenu


    actually he is correct in my view jw don't sell mags for a corp- instead they merely buy them themselves and give them away for "FREE"

    most jw in our circuit rarely even Asked for a donation, they asked teh person will you read them- if so you can have them at no cost

    most jw hated asking for money so they just covered the cost themselves to keep from asking

  • JT

    Marman says:

    This is a very common accusation from silly apostates. The Watchtower and Awake are very informative. Most of the donations come from the Witnesses themselves. Very seldom do Witnesses mention the donations to the householders. I asked my wife about this and she told me that 95% of the time the witnesses never mentions the donation arrangement.


    and in my exp he is correct the avg jw is so embarrassed to even ask they simply pay wt out of their own pocket to keep from asking

  • happy man
    happy man

    Well I can tell how it is in sweden, here we pay fore the scriptur ouerselfs, and then we ask the peopel on the district if they want to give a gift fore the wordwide work, and i must say i have more money now ,than when we want money for the mags, i myself have aroud in sweed money 20 kr, it is 3 dollar for 3 mags, it is very commen. So our con we are 50 pub, it is given 500 $ for the mags, then all the money from peopel who gett them on the district , it is I think much more , then when we take a spec summ for the mags.

  • LDH

    I like the way Happy Man writes in Swedish Accent. [8>]


  • rhett

    If they were complying with Ceasar they'd pay their taxes and quit whining about how people should make donations as well as quit bitching about how horrible other religions are for passing said plate around for people to put money in.

  • Hyghlandyr

    Rehorsewoman thanks for those figures and for bringing something very interesting to light. As far as the cost of the magazines, when they stopped charging a set price I believe it was twenty five cents american.

    What happens is the society tries to get witnesses to compare the perceived value of the magazines, and other literature to that in the world. Even offering suggestions. This has been most prominent in the KMs articles about the CDROM. I am quoting from memory here so it is not accurate but something like "Some people have found that similar programs cost fifty, or even one hundred dollars in the world."

    Hogwash. I am a programmer, (who tries his best not to work), and I know what software costs. A good bible CD you can get for five bucks. A collection for maybe 50. As Redhorsewoman pointed out, a cd is minimile to produce. A few cents. You can buy CDs, programs or fonts or graphics and so on, for FIFTY CENTS or a BUCK in computer stores! I am not trying to infer that this is the run of the mill price, but it does happen for some of them. And the society tries to imply that their CDROM is worth a hundred bucks.

    My wife and I got into an arguement over that when I first became an apostate. I wanted the CD, and knew she would donate like a hundred bucks for it. I told her give twenty five, no more.

    Something else, I was a pioneer when the change came. I dont recall what we got the mags for, I think it was ten cents each, the rest was profit. Fifteen per mag. I got 30 mags each. If I had sold them for the profit that would have garnered me 20? bucks a month? hehe. Good thing I was livin cheap.

    Anyhow, we had a big meeting several months later. What we were doing as pioneers, was paying the correct amount as we had been in the past, ten? cents per magazine, whatever for books. Asking for donations, and pocketing the rest. Naturally for those that actually asked for the donation, they were cleaning up. Then we were informed at this special meeting, just for pioneers, that now the society got all of the money. We were first to pay for them as usual, but on a 'voluntary donation' basis, and then turn over all of the funds we collected. We then asked, well, dont we at least take out the difference, between what we collected and what we donated in order to recoup our costs? But we were told no.

    So the society may still sell them in other countries. They may not sell them here. However, those that with any regularity actually ask for the donation make far more than they would have selling them.

    But I think many are not asking for the donations, I know we hardly did, especially when I stopped pioneering. Pioneers often tend to tow the party line a bit more than others in the congregation. But overall, one of the things that attracted me to the witnesses was that they were not about money. Of course, as I found out later they were. Still, they try to deny it, and put down, the plate passing and other such things of other churches. So the average witness is not all that comfortable with asking for donations.

    Mulan, I hope things go your way and the congregation does not give you any more difficulty over helping your mother out. I am also glad there is someone at patterson helping you.

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