Daniel 2:33,34,44,45 scripturally proves the Kingdom was not established in 1914!

by yadda yadda 2 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  yadda yadda 2

  At Daniel 2:33-35, the "stone" not cut by hands strikes the image on the feet of iron and of molded clay and crushes them.

  Notice that in Daniel 2:44,45, the setting up of the kingdom is synonymous with the stone crushing the image. Verse 44 talks about the Kingdom crushing when it is set up, and verse 45 talks about the feet being crushed by the stone. It's clear they are describing the same event.

  It's therefore logical to conclude that the kingdom is set up when the stone (representing the kingdom) strikes the image in the feet and crushes the image entirely, not before, not after.

  Contrary to this, the Watchtower teaches that in 1914 the kingdom (ie, the stone) was established in heaven, and

  Contrary to this, the Watchtower Society claims that this prophecy in Daniel indicates that the stone was cut in 1914, and that it has been hurtling to earth since then:

  NO OTHER WORLD POWER WILL ARISE

  13 A prophecy in the book of Daniel enables us to establish where we are in the stream of time. Daniel describes an image in human form made up of different metals. (Dan. 2:28, 31-33) It represents successive world powers that have had a major influence on God's people, past and present. They are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome-and the last, in our time, another world power. A study of Daniel's prophecy shows that this final world power is depicted in the image as the feet and toes. During World War I, Britain and the United States forged a special partnership. Yes, the fifth part of Daniel's image is the Anglo-American World Power. The feet form the last part of the image, indicating that no other human world power will appear on the scene. That the feet and toes are made up of iron and clay pictures the weakened state of the Anglo-American World Power.

  14 The same prophecy indicates that God's Kingdom, pictured by a large stone, was cut from the mountain of Jehovah's sovereignty in 1914. That stone is now hurtling toward its target-the feet of the image. At Armageddon, the feet and the rest of the image will be smashed. (Read Daniel 2:44, 45.) Thus, the Anglo-American World Power will still be the dominant world power when Armageddon strikes. How thrilling it will be to witness the complete fulfillment of this prophecy! Watchtower 12 9/15 "How This World Will Come to an End"

  
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  Phizzy

  Many scholars feel that Daniel was written mainly about Antiochus 1V Epiphanes, and was completed shortly before his death in 164BC.

  So it was written for the age of crisis the pseudonymous author found himself in, not as a book of prophecy about some far off kingdom of God to be "set up" many centuries later.

  Much strained exegesis over the years could have been avoided if people only recognised what scholars do today.

  The Kingdom to end all kingdoms was as imminant to the writer of Daniel as it is to JW's today.

  The writer did not see his vision fulfilled, and neither will the JW's.
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  Jeffro

  yadda yadda 2:

  It's therefore logical to conclude that the kingdom is set up when the stone (representing the kingdom) strikes the image in the feet and crushes the image entirely, not before, not after.

  There's nothing particularly logical about believing that a story written thousands of years ago about a Jewish perspective of long-dead Greeks has anything at all to do with a fictional deity doing anything in the modern era via superstitious numerology based on a false starting date.
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  FrankieGoesToHollywood

  Well, first, Daniel confirms that the tree is indeed King Nebuchadnezzar himself. Therefore its totally unlogical that the tree could also represent

  the Kingdom pf Judah. Secondly, the feet and the toes mixed with iron and clay represents charasteristics of that fourth empire, its not a new one.

  The fourth empire is indeed the Roman one, were the eastern part became the strong one with Constantinopel as capital.

  A anglo/american empire is just a watchtower fantasy to make them unique and special! The "appointed times of the nations" is a bizzare joke.
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  yadda yadda 2

  BTT. I was rather hoping someone would comment on my argument per se, on its merits. So far I've had no direct feedback on the content of my post?

  This forum ain't what it used to be :-(
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  Jeffro

  I was rather hoping someone would comment on my argument per se, on its merits.

  Your conclusion about the JW doctrine is reasonable enough. But, the JW doctrine is just plain wrong anyway.

  Their interpretation boils down to GIGO.
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  yadda yadda 2

  Much thanks Jeffro. GIGO...I love it.
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  Larsinger58

  YADDAYADDA2: I was rather hoping someone would comment on my argument per se, on its merits. So far I've had no direct feedback on the content of my post?

  LARS: In direct response to your issue of the delayed destruction of the image, there's nothing wrong with that. Based on other scriptures, Satan is cast out of heaven at the same time as the second coming and then cast down to earth. Then there is an itnerval of time when Christ's angels go and seal the elect while Satan prepares the nations for Armageddon. So there is a delay and that is effectively represented by the delay between the stone being cut out of the mountain and then striking the image. That is, there is a delay from the time the kingdom is set up in heaven and when it actually gets set up in the earth. So in this case I would side with the WTS on this interpretation, EXCEPT per Revelation, the UN is in power when Armageddon strikes. The ten toes would adequately represent the UN, i.e. multiple kingdoms. Ten toes wouldn't represent well the dual-world power of the Anglo-Saxons.

  The delay is scriptural. I don't see a clear issue in this case.
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  Larsinger58

  PHIZZY: Many scholars feel that Daniel was written mainly about Antiochus 1V Epiphanes, and was completed shortly before his death in 164BC.

  LARS: Interesting you'd focus on that detail, Phiz. For the record, Daniel clearly dates his own book. He served under Nebuchadnezzar II as well as Darius the Mede and was still alive when Cyrus came to the throne.

  Some think Daniel was written much later because of the extant copies and language. But the book of "Esdras" (Ezra/Nehemiah) and Daniel were suppressed for a while by the Jews themselves in an attempt to cooperate with the Persians in covering up the identity of Xerxes who was also going by the name of Artaxeerxes. The Jews loved Xerxes/Artaxerxes. But after Xerxes invaded Greece, he became a target for assasination so he was able to fake his death and claim that he was his own son. The Book of Daniel combined with Ezra/Nehemiah reflected the original history, though, so they were suppressed. To help with the revised history, the Jews then wrote a revised version of "Esdras" that leaves off the part of the history. The original book of Ezra/Nehemiah showed Nehemiah returning with the original exiles in the 1st of Cyrus, but also showing that Nehemiah served under Artaxerxes throughout his entire rule and surviving into the reign of Darius II. The Persians expanded this part of the history in order to make Darius I old enough to be the grandfather to Artaxerxes was was now claiming to be the grandson of Darius I instead of his son. The rule of Darius I was expanded from six years to 36 years. Plus the book of Daniel provides specific information about the kings of Persia.

  After the Persian Empire ended and Xerxes got away with faking his death, the canonical Ezra/Nehemiah and Daniel resurfaced and the resurfaced versions are what reflect the later dating including linguistic issues.

  But, Phizzy, since you are so focussed on bashing Daniel, why don't you compare the apocryphal "Esdras" with canonical Ezra/Nehemiah and then comare that with Josephus' history.

  Even so, it is a fact that the apocryphal "Esdras" proves revisionism from this period by the Jews. As I said, the Jews loved Xerxes and so they were very cooperative. In fact, they may have masterminded some of the cover-up.

  But as I said, regardless of the actual age of the earliest extant copies, Daniel was written during the Neo-Babylonian and Persian Periods.

  Now why don't you entertain us with your intellectual reasons for why the Jews have two versions of "Esdras"?
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  Crazyguy

  thats one slow moving stone.