Does The WTBTS Use Spies To Find The Rebellious?

by Cold Steel 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Cold Steel

  Some people are outspoken critics of the Society even while being part of it. They may do this because of their families or because they have doubts about their doubts. Have you heard any examples of elders sending people forth to ferret out doubters and people who may spread discontent? If not, are there people who take it on their own to find and report such people?

  Have any of you been stabbed in the proverbial backs by those you thought were friends and who testified against you?

  Also, how does the church treat such critics within their ranks? If a person promises to repent and turn over a new leaf in a church hearing, are they usually given another chance or is the die cast? Have they crossed the Rubicon?
• 

  zeb

  The 'spies' would be willing volunteers.
• 

  Cold Steel

  Yes, but are there such spies? And do the elders use the law of witnesses, which require two or more? In other words, can one witness get someone in bad trouble if the accused denies the testimony?

  Who would initiate such spying?
• 

  konceptual99

  I've not heard of people being officially tasked with being a spy, such as having an identity on here for example, but they don't have to in many cases as the culture encourages grassing people up. If someone starts to fade then there are plenty of people who will take it on themselves to swing past the house at Christmas to see if there are any lights, spread a little disinformation about where and when they have seen somebody potentially engaged in "unwise" activities, spread a little gossip about the spiritual health of someone to their friends etc.

  Elders will also use social events and innocuous shepherding calls to ask seemingly innocent questions or get ones to express an opinion that will later be used against them.

  The whole control aspect of the religion is based around conformance to social rules and undermining the perception of ones adherence to these moves them into a "unacceptable" box which then means others have no guilt about gossip, slander, lies and underhand tactics regarding "weak" ones.
• 

  Phizzy

  The local Elders do, and they try to ensure 2 witnesses.
• 

  Obadiah

  Please note:

  I do not wish to instill paranoia, but truth be told...the Organization has an internet committee staffed by many "Geeks" who know quite well how to get around this media. It would not surprise me if they had "Hackers" as well. (The Society doesn't consider it a crime to break the law if it is for the Organization's sake) They believe God would understand. They obviously have enough money...but would they be motivated to "spy" on you and your "research".

  Do you remember that they asked everyone in the congregation for their e-mails and cell phone numbers...just in case of "emergency"? With this information anyone of us can be "tracted" as to where we visit on the internet, if that person who owns the domain that you signed up on decides to use that personal information. Advertisers do it all the time.

  I have been pointedly told by fellow servants that if a person... (you)...are visiting "Apostate sites" on the internet "We will know it". This leads to an interesting possibility. It has been pointed out to me that the Society has bought up many "Domain Names" on the internet to have some control of the content and allow them to have this sort of tracking ability.

  ...It appears that Robert King has "Sold Out" his domain name to some other party. (Robert...I hope you got more than 30 pieces of Silver for it) Officially the site ( e-jehovah's witnesses) has "changed hands". Even "the picture" of him looking over those on the couch has now changed to a sign for the "Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses".

  If the Society can "buy" his site, what does it mean for other sites?

  I just thought we might want to be a little more cautious as to how much "personal information" we leave on any site...even in Personal Message notes.

  "Cautious as serpents...yet innocent as doves".

  Agape, Obadiah.
• 

  talesin

  Obadiah - my nephew has a BSc in Comp. Science (my parents are OH SO PROUD, though they denied me an education), and I cannot get ANY information out of them about what my nephew actually 'does' for a living, or indeed, where he lives! I have been suspicious about this for quite some time, considering my family's now 5th generation involvement with the b'Org (and some Bethelites and positions of "elder" power). I have often wondered if my nephew is a geek similar to what you have just described - for the WTBTS TM . It matters not to me, as my life is an open book. But it is kinda creepy to consider.

  tal
• 

  Cold Steel

  There would be some problems with the above, I would think.

  What if someone's family were not members? Martin converts to the church, but his family wants none of it. So around Christmas, they light the house up and put up a tree. What would the Society do in such a situation? Demand that his family not put up lights, trees, celbrate birthdays and so forth?

  And even if the Society could trace Internet activity and by some feat of technology and identifies a link between an "apostate" web site (like this one) and one of their members, would they really reveal their snooping to bag a backslider? I imagine that would be a remarkable story for the news media.

  I'm also more than a little astounded that the JWs would discourage higher education. Is it because they think the end is so close that it's a waste of time? Or do they fear education? (I suspect it would be difficult to be the smartest guy in the room if people went out and got themselves educated.) But from what I understand, there's no specific commandment not to pursue higher education, is there? What if someone is already pursuing an education when he joins the Society? Do they just let him continue or is the counseled? And what could they possibly say? Is there anything in print about this absurd stance?

  And, again, is it only counsel? They wouldn't take acton against someone, would they? Would it be better or worse if a person was pursuing an advanced degree in, say, ancient scripture? It seems that having some honest to goodness scholars would be a good thing.
• 

  Band on the Run

  My personal take as a many generational family member is that a few believe education is a waste b/c the end is near. Of course, maybe Jehoover wants us educated to administer his theocracy after Armageddon. Imagine if God wanted that and discovers to his dismay that it was acitvely discouraged. Most fear the logical consequences of both education and socialization that accompanies education.

  People today focus on earnings. I do not. College is worth the money and effort b/c it is pleasurable and lasts as long as you live. It teaches critical thiking skills that can never be removed from you. My personal experience is that most profs don't care what you know (of course, they must 0e to get paid as much as the process of thought. Knowing how to raise hard questions is far more valuable. Wikipedia and other info sources are widely available now. The highest praise I ever receive is when someone states that I ask hard questions. I rarely have answers but I do have questions.

  I do not understand how anyone with a basic college education can believe the Witness crap. Of course, I fervently believed it before my exposure. TV was a hard blow to WTBTS in my lifetime. Wordly people could be seen and heard in the home. The Internet has truly demolished their reach. Colleges don't teach any course specifically designed to smash the WT to bits. What a self-centered notion..

  God needs intelligent and trained people in various fields and interests. When I think of God, God must view us as dummies. Does our puny knowledge threaten God? I don't think so. Our puny knowledge threatens cults.
• 

  konceptual99

  @coldsteel - just take a look at this week's Jeremiah book study. Yet more counsel against higher education. The R&F in my cong were lapping it up last night...