The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

by Dogpatch 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Interview with Mark Palo

    Randy, I'm the little four eyed geek in the middle wearing the Circuit Assembly placard. In the Bronx we used to hold them at this place called Hunts Point Palace. It was a real speak easy during the prohibition days and owned by the mob. Many big name bands preformed there during between the 30s and 60s. My high school was right around corner and we used the place for graduation ceremonies. The other people in the photo are the Eisner family. John to my right was Dfed when he was around 19-20 and went on to become a big deal at Ohio State. The woman is the mother of the two boys, Grace Eisner, she was my moms Bible study and has since died. The blonde kid Is Robert Eisner. He was my best man in my marriage to my first wife. He was an extremely talented musician and I believe he played in the Societies orchestra on some of the music tapes. I have no clue as to his standing with the WT or as to his where abouts. We lost all contact when I moved from da Bronx. He was a funny kind of guy. Loved baseball and we played stickball till we dropped but there was something about him that I never fathomed. Maybe it was just the artistic side of him because he and I invented all kinds of things. We even built our own phone system between our houses using surplus military phones. In school we built a working example of sonar using a fish tank and spare electronics parts. Nearly burnt the school down. But the dang thing really worked. Peace, Marco Current picture:

    Randy, I sent you a recent photo doctored up a bit. I have always dreamed of pitching for the Yankees so that explains the pix. I figure a little humor helps. Marco

    Telephone Interview with Mark Palo re: Leo Greenlees (former Governing Body member) (20 minutes)

    Questions asked in above interview (outline):

    1) When did your parents become JWs?

    Dad was born 1897 became JW in 1918, Mother became JW in late 1920s ( not sure of exact B'day)

    2) What was their roles in the Jws?

    Dad served at Bethel 13 yrs under Rutherford, Mom was Colporter with sisters in Michigan Dad went to jail for draft along with Knorr and others.

    3) When where you born?

    1950 - only child

    4) Did your parents do any special work for the Society?

    They did a lot of translation of correspondence in the Finnish language to English and vice versa since they where both fluent in the language.

    5) When was this?

    50s-60s

    6) Where did they do this?

    Both at home and at Brooklyn Bethel.

    7) When they went to Bethel did you accompany them?

    Yes

    8) Could you tell us what happened when you where at Bethel?

    I was sexually molested by Leo Greenlees. I must state that until only recently I did not know the name of my molester. A friend sent me some photos of him and Percy Chapman and others. When I saw his picture I froze because I immediately recognized his face. I later learned that I wasn't his only victim.

    9) Was there any other time you where molested?

    Yes, once at a JW picnic by an older boy who was the nephew of a brother at my KH.

    10) Did either of them get reported or in trouble.

    No, basically I was terrorized into silence. I came to believe it was my sin. Neither perpetrator ever answered for their acts.

    11) How has this affected you?

    For years I tried to bury it deep in my mind. I married my child hood sweet heart who ironically I had brought into the JWs. Through my bringing her in her whole family came into the JWs. Her sister is now married to Don Culp who is a DO. I worked hard at pre-assembly work and assemblies in the sound department. I designed and built a video switching and closed circuit TV system for the large assemblies. The molestations kept creeping back in my head and I started a love affair with the bottle. Eventually this led to problems at home and at the Hall. My ex was running to the elders about every little thing I did or said and I was rebelling against the unyielding attitude of the elders. I finally told my story and was branded a liar. Then the elders tried to DF me on some trumped up charges. I then disassociated myself because I wasn't going to lower myself to their level.

    I lost a home, business, and a family and ended up homeless. If it hadn't been for a Catholic friend of mine I would have ended up in the street. That's how much my ex and the elders cared. I ended up in the ER where my heart stopped twice and I was clinically dead for 2 minutes but survived. This was due to my alcoholism, stress, poor physical condition and anxiety. But even after this horrible detox I kept drinking for about 3 months. This shows how strong an addiction can be. A doctor told me that if I kept on drinking I would be dead within a year. So I voluntarily entered another detox and this one took.

    Without the alcohol to self medicate I began to experience horrific nightmares, clinical depression, anxiety attacks, and extreme anger episodes. I eventually sought professional help. I have been in therapy for some years now and along with the proper medications it works. My therapist had directly linked my molestations and my upbringing in the JWs as the direct cause of my problems.

    12) Where are you now?

    10 going on 11 years sober. I am in college and have made Phi Theta Kappa. I work at a substance abuse agency as the consumer advocate and was recently appointed to the agency's board of directors. I also am involved in Upper Room Ministries which is a Ex-JW group whose aim is to assist people who have left or are considering leaving the WT by providing a safety net. I also sit on the Massachusetts Department of Health, Substance Abuse Consumer Panel. I am also Lowell's representative for the Mass. organization for Addiction Recovery.

    13) Do you ever look back or miss the JWs.

    Not once, not ever. They ruined my life for awhile but like the Phoenix I rose from the ashes.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    The problem Dogz, is that many posters have asked you point blank "Who is in control?" on this site. Why? Because if we knew, we could focus our efforts on them, rather than on the GB, if that is truly the case.

    In all cases, you have simply evaded the question, copy/pasted stories, anecdotes, and theories about this "wizard behind the curtain" with no real evidence other than your personal experiences at beth-hell which are now 33 years old.

    That is why we simply don't wade through your sixteen paragraph regurgitations of what has been posted here and other internet properties for years....it simply doesn't get us closer to what we want to know.

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    This is from the year 2000 before they changed the committees and took the GB members off:

    WRITING DEPT. & OTHER PERSONNEL
    at Watchtower Headquarters as of 8/15/00


    (Does not include many support persons)
    John (Jack) Barr: Writing Dept. Overseer
    Karl Klein: Assistant Writing Dept. Overseer
    John Wischuck
    Sam Buck
    Colin Quackenbush
    Cyril Chain
    Gene Smalley
    Eric Beveridge
    Joe Eames
    Bob Pevy
    David Iannelli
    Lee Waters
    Manfred Vancebi
    Jim Pellechia
    Danny Black
    Natheer Salih
    George Aljian
    Steve Johnson
    Mike Gietler
    John Wiegel
    Dean Songer
    Ciro Aulicino
    Richard Potter

    Writing Correspondence Personnel, Patterson, NY (Incomplete)
    Ray Richardson
    Jagdish Patel
    J. R. Brown

    Executive Office Personnel, Brooklyn, NY

    Theodore Jaracz
    Milton Henschell
    Gerrit Losch
    Albert Schroeder
    David Sinclair
    Robert Wallen
    Don Adams
    David Mercante
    Harold Jackson
    Rick Rittenbach
    Brett Cox
    Chris. Mavor
    Charles Molohan

    Service Department Personnel, Patterson, NY

    Charles Woody: Coordinator
    Wm. Van De Wall: Asst. Coordinator
    William Young
    Merton Campbell
    Robert Johnson
    Joel Adams
    Harley Miller
    David Olson
    Leon Weaver
    Dan Barnes
    Alan Shuster
    Ralph Schaefer
    Ernest Williams
    Tom Miles
    Aleman Francisco

    Legal Department Personnel, Patterson, NY (Incomplete)

    Philip Brumley: Coordinator
    Gregory Olds
    Don Ridley
    Carolyn Wah
    Charles Creger
    Joseph Jandrokovic

    Quite a few of these are still alive!

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Watchtower Reorganizes for Legal Advantages

    In a move that is more likely to attract attention for legal reasons than anything else, the Watchtower has made a massive reorganization of its corporate leadership. While this does not seem to affect current responsibilities such as their actual daily work, it clearly is meant to provide isolation of guilt to as few entities as possible in the litigious days ahead for the Watchtower organization. Here is their press release. Below are some notes from the Annual Meeting.

    Here are a few notes from the Annual Meeting held yesterday:

    Yeartext for 2001: Colossians 4:12: "Stand complete and with firm
    conviction in all the will of God."

    Talk by Dan Sydlik: The Board of Directors and Officers of the Society's
    Legal Corporation were all anointed, since it was closely associated with
    the Governing Body. (The lone exception was Hayden Covington) However, as
    pointed out in 1971, the Governing Body preceded the WTBTS of
    Pennsylvania, since it was established at Pentecost. The Governing Body
    is not appointed by any man, and cannot be voted into office. The GB does
    not have officers (President, Vice President, etc.), only a
    chairman, who rotates.

    Is there any scriptural reason why the officers of the WTBTS of
    Pennsylvania have to be anointed? Not really. There are about 100 other
    legal entities associated with the WTBTS of Pennsylvania, whose officers
    are not anointed. They are legal instruments, under the direction of the
    GB, designed to make Jehovah's name known worldwide. However, they are
    not necessary to carry on the work, as has been demonstrated in many
    lands where the work has been banned.

    Members of the other sheep are called on help with the work, enabling the
    GB to focus exclusively on spiritual matters.

    Talk by Ted Jaracz: Began by discussing how congregation elders and
    ministerial servants are not elected, rather the qualifications are set
    out in the scriptures. Holy spirit, in various ways, plays a vital role
    in theocratic appointments. Theocratic appointments at all levels are
    made directly or indirectly by the GB. No legal entity controls such
    appointments.

    Talk by Jack Barr: Members of the Governing Body resigned from the WTBTS
    and members of the other sheep were nominated and elected to fill their
    slots. Thirty or more names were read quickly for various corporations.
    Don Adams is now president of the WTBTS of Pennsylvania.

    Brother Barr also mentioned that three new corporations were being
    formed.

    The Governing Body will continue to direct these legal entities.

    ======================================================================

    Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:56:26 -0400

    I wanted to share some announcements with you that were made at the
    Annual Meeting today. (sent by a Bethelite)

    The Governing Body has decided that the positions of President, Vice
    President, Secretary/Treasurer, etc. in the legal corporations (e.g.,
    Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc.; Watchtower
    Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., etc.) do not have to be filled
    by anointed brothers. Therefore, all of the brothers that were currently
    holding these positions, all of whom were on the Governing Body, have
    resigned. Brothers of the other sheep have replaced them. Therefore,
    brother Don Adams is now the president of the Watch Tower Society.

    Quite a lengthy discussion was given as to the reason this was decided
    and why it's OK. Essentially, it boils down to the fact that this allows
    the Governing Body to step back and deal primarily with spiritual
    matters, while these brothers of the other sheep handle day-to-day
    business operations of the legal corporations.

    In addition, three new corporations have been formed:

    1) Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, which will supervise
    matters of a religious and educational nature. This includes organizing
    the preaching work, holding conventions, etc. The directors and officers
    of this corporation are primarily brothers who work closely with the
    Service department in Patterson. Brother William Van de Wall is the
    president of this corporation.

    2) Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, which cares for matters
    pertaining to those in Special Full-Time service, including Bethelites,
    Special Pioneers, Traveling Overseers, etc. Brother Patrick LaFranca is
    the president of this corporation.

    3) Kingdom Support Services, Inc., which handles design & engineering of
    buildings and holds titles to vehicles used by the Society.

    The attendance for the annual meeting was 13,082, the largest ever.

    Additionally, the year text for 2001 will be: "Stand complete and with
    firm conviction in all the will of God" - Col 4:12

    http://www.watchtowernews.org/reorganization.htm

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Being careful not to bore poor LostGeneration to death, this is it for now. But I have lots more lies to tell, LG!!

    Thus Saith Jehovah's Witnesses
    by Randall Watters

    This is the outline of the book, Thus Saith Jehovah's Witnesses by Randall Watters. The first edition was printed in 1982, not long after Randy left Bethel--the Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. The third and much more extensive version was printed in 2004 with updates on the United Nations scandal. To read Randy's background, click here. For the extensive chronicles of his misadventures at Bethel and those of others such as Raymond Franz, go to the Bethel Chronicles.

    T hird edition, 243 pages letter-size and coil bound, copyright revised 2004 by Common Sense Publications, a division of Free Minds, Inc., Box 3818, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266.

    table of contents Review of the Watchtower Presidential Eras
    section 1: Principles We Believe In
    section 2: Why Believe Us?
    section 3: Dates We've Set
    section 4: How We Make Money (printed version only) section 5: People We Quote (printed version only) section 6: How We Control You
    section 7: Damage Control and the News Media (includes new section on their involvement with the United Nations) (printed version only)

  • Dogpatch
  • PleiadesPoliceman
    PleiadesPoliceman

    The Governing Body do provide a function to the real power behind the the truth makers. The rumors about a bomb shelter being built at the new Watchtower University and Theme park have no merit, stop listening to the rebellious talk of Korah and his followers. The leaders of the Governing Body have faith in you, keep up the good work and pray we can build this project before the Big A comes in 2016!

  • metatron
    metatron

    Randy, your postings here are getting a bit scary. These voluminous postings appear (I can't read the stuff in yellow) to be very, very dated. From 30 years ago, from 20 years ago, from 10 years ago.

    I appreciate your experience and careful recording of it. I also have some knowledge of unhealthy corporate behavior. In addition, there is no guarantee that anyone holding a position of power in a authoritarian structure still believes in its doctrines.

    OTOH, I do note that there is a growing divide between the average Witless and the behavior of the WTS directors (I say directors, lower case, because I'm not sure who's giving the orders). These 'heavies' cut and layoff seemingly without end, with no concern for anyone else (long term Bethelites, Branch Office types, etc.)

    We may be looking at a small group of men who operate coldly and almost automatically. Revenue down? Layoff! Donations down? Cut the magazines to 16 pages!

    Taking a cue from Ray's accounts of the GB, I would guess that disliked alternatives may come up again and again, until approved (like the alternative service issue). So, you may have Bethel layoffs proposed as an option "unless things improve" - and then they don't and the firings take place.

    Could the most likely answer be collective autopilot? Decision -making is spread out amidst various toadies, ass-kissers and cronies - and most policies are set in place( preserve the Organization at all costs, never admit we were wrong, never apologize....). There's likely a huge amount of self censoring that takes place, everyday. Autopilot, autopilot.....

    The above, however secure and cozy it may feel for these corporate religionists, does not protect them from sudden, unexpected change (far from it). It also may set them up for an engineered self-destruct of the organization. Suppose publishers start to cost more than they donate? I keep asking that!

    If my intuitive sense of the future is correct (sometimes) I think the world is ready to explode in a revolution unlike anything ever experienced. When it hits, the Watchtower will be exposed as the irrelevant 19th century anachronism it is.

    metatron

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Hi y'all...

    For Gingerbread and SoSo:

    I am not talking about the ones with weak or old minds. re the real leaders - not necessarily the real old ones - many on the list are in fine states of mind. This is the generation AFTER Knorr mostly. We are not talking about men in diapers. They don't have to DO anything anyways - just to be there and make decisions, which they can do from a chair. They don't care about the beliefs, the prophecies, or the future of trhe world. They don't go door to door or attend many meetings. Just think of it like an Italian family with patriarchs. I doubt they even care if you drink blood or go to a church. You get jaded at Bethel, couldn't give a damn about doctrine, and rarely go to meetings... but you are a family head and are respected and obeyed. Many are jaded at Bethel - it is isolation. Few elders that had been there over 10-15 years cared about ANY of the things you think they do. All they care about is the mighty ORGANIZATION - SECURITY in their old age! But they are pretty cranky, you don't cross them or they will punish you, and you damn well better respect them!!

    Don't treat me like I'm some 40 year removed relic. I'm in relatively good health, my mind is good, and I keep in touch with certain key people - as do many other "apostates" like Alan Feuerbacher. We're not talking sports and track meets!

    Sure they're too old to work for many, but many ARE ALSO MY AGE. 61 IS NOT OLD. I just have some inherited physical problems but I can do much of what I did 20-30 years ago.

    They are simply grooming the new GB. It happened with Rutherford, Knorr, and now with them... exactly the same scenario. They just covet SENIORITY and power. They got the new boys (GB) on a leash for 3-5 years then they drop out once they are trained. But these new guys are pretty dumb if you ask me. Plus it's obvious they have not been handed the mantle of power yet. (A perpetual scenario that they have written extensively on).

    These are things you cannot know unless you have lived there quite a while, so I don't expect you to understand. There is absolutely NO MYSTERY to it!!

    They train then let the current GB make most of the decisions, make asses of themselves, make policy, doctrine, etc.... most of which are made by the non-anointed anyway and have been for years! The older ones have no interest in most things like that.

    A lot of the men on the boards of Directors (look at the long list) are not THAT old. I am 61 and they aren't much older. I go scuba diving, hiking and dirt biking, ride dirt bikes, listen to 60s rock music, use herbs, only need 3 hours sleep a night and never take naps, and am pretty strong. My dad died at 85 from a car-hitting-deer accident, but would have been fine until 90 or so. My mom is 85 and not too bad... no big incapacitating issues. Her mind is sharp but Alzheimers affects her memory. All those on both sides of my family lived until 80-90 or more and were sharp and funny. No one ever gets sick! (Genetic issues are another thing.)

    I'm going to drop it because you really have to be there, or be raised in a several generation old-school family to understand... trying to explain it to outsiders is almost a waste of time.

    I could start a new business once I get my health together and work for another 20 years... but my skeletal issues would hate it.

    Also, as a rule, the older Bethelites are in much better health than their worldly counterparts. They are isolated from the sick world.

    That's all I'm going to say. You want more, ask another old-time Bethelite who was in the know (worked in the home and knew these guys) and they will COMPLETELY understand, and you never will.

    NOW LET'S GO RUN THAT 5K FOLKS!!

    Randy

  • Balaamsass2
    Balaamsass2

    A look behind the curtain of the Temple for new members. A "Spiritual Paradise" .

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