WT - Nisan 14 + the Paschal Full Moon = Babylonian Astronomy

by *lost* 31 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    mP,

    1. You contradicted my (and Phizzy's) statement that it is astrology JWs are warned about, not astronomy. You've gone off on tangents about JWs being hypocrites, Josephus and the Temple, the Jews and the Bible and your view that the latter condones the practice of astrology (it doesn't). None of this has anything to do with the fact that JWs are warned about astrology rather than astronomy.

    2. You assert that Hannukah is all about the winter solstice and the rebirth of the Sun. It isn't. As you were shown, the festival stems from something else entirely and, unlike the equinoxes and solstices, which occur on (practically) the same date in the luni-solar calendar every year, Hannukah doesn't, sometimes beginning as early as November. The Jews know about the origins of their own festivals and why they celebrate them, so it's really inconsequential that you disbelieve their reasons.

    All cultures monitor the passing of the seasons, especially agricultural peoples like the ancient Israelites - times for planting and harvest, and the rainy and dry seasons. The appearance of certain stars and constellations at different times of the year are markers for those seasons. As was argued in a previous post, one thing the OT is consistent on - there is one Creator of all things; He alone is to be revered and worshipped; He doesn't take kindly to those who look for spiritual guidance (divination, using other deities) outside of what He has prescribed.

  • mP
    mP

    Ann

    1. You contradicted my (and Phizzy 's) statement that it is astrology JWs are warned about, not astronomy.

    mP:

    I was showing that the bible and jewish culture is filled with astrology. All my examples are true and when put to gether overwhelming.

    Ann

    2. You assert that Hannukah is all about the winter solstice and the rebirth of the Sun.

    MP:

    H is today accepted as the jewish xmas. The lights and candles represent the Sun. The feast of Saturnalia used similar devices. The candles and fire represent the star tof a fire or a new sun.

    , also known as the Festival of Lights and Feast of Dedication ,

    The hebrew calendar because of its lunar counting is never fixed compared to our solar. However as i demonstrated with the other days, the dates, the holidays is meant to match up with some solstice/equinox. H floats about but its clear the cneter of the floating is xmas the winter solstice.

    Are you saying the other dates like passsover are not sun inspired ? I cant help the jewish calendar is awkward.

    The jewish religion of today has changed and evolved. They also stopped sacrifices and many other ancient inspired practices.

    ANN:

    He doesn't take kindly to those who look for spiritual guidance (divination, using other deities) outside of what He has prescribed.

    mP:

    Not quite, the priests dont like locals going somewhere else and giving along with the payment. Its always about money or power. As i have shown the jewish religion is no different from that of the locals they so passionately hate.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    I was showing that the bible and jewish culture is filled with astrology. All my examples are true and when put to gether overwhelming.

    Your examples are combined with knight-jump leaps to flawed conclusions. The example in Job does nothing to support the idea of astrology. It's not even certain that mazzaroth = Zodiac. The text is, however, a poetic acknowledgement that God controls everything, even the stars that mark the times and seasons.

    H is today accepted as the jewish xmas. The lights and candles represent the Sun.

    No they do not. http://www.hanukkahcelebrations.com/candles.html

    The hebrew calendar because of its lunar counting is never fixed compared to our solar. However as i demonstrated with the other days, the dates, the holidays is meant to match up with some solstice/equinox. H floats about but its clear the cneter of the floating is xmas the winter solstice.

    If the holiday dates vary, they cannot be designed to match up with the fixed winter solstice date, can they?

    Are you saying the other dates like passsover are not sun inspired ?

    If the Passover dates vary and are tied to the story of the Exodus and the lunar calendar, they cannot be 'sun inspired,' can they?

    Not quite, the priests dont like locals going somewhere else and giving along with the payment. Its always about money or power. As i have shown the jewish religion is no different from that of the locals they so passionately hate.

    Yes quite. The OT condemns the practice of astrology and seeking guidance from other gods. According to the OT, bad things happened to the Israelites when they became unfaithful.

  • mP
    mP

    Ann

    If the holiday dates vary, they cannot be designed to match up with the fixed winter solstice date, can they?

    mP:

    maybe its not good enuff for you but considering the holidays i gave are directly related to sowing and harvesting the fact the dates drifted didnt seem to bother them. Nisan 14 was also a celeberation of first fruits.

  • mP
    mP

    Ann

    The example in Job does nothing to support the idea of astrology. It's not even certain that mazzaroth = Zodiac. The text is, however, a poetic acknowledgement that God controls everything, even the stars that mark the times and seasons.

    mP:

    The text says god controls the constellations and zodiac which control our earth. The characters in the text are all figures from the zodiac and astrology. acknowledging their powers to influence our lives is what astrology is all about. I will conceed that the exact definition of mazzaroth is not known but generally most believe its zodiac

    38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
    38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades , or loose the bands of Orion?

    38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

    38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
  • mP
    mP

    Ann

    If the Passover dates vary and are tied to the story of the Exodus and the lunar calendar, they cannot be 'sun inspired,' can they?

    mP:

    Of course they are, because the sun is the center of all things astrology. In the case of the lunar calendar system, the month was just a division just like a day or week. The jewsish calendar had 7 days which matches the 7 heavenly bodies. other week systems with 7 days also had the same reasoning.

  • mP
    mP

    Im guessing this is th scripture you are referring too.

    DE

    18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
    18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD : and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
  • mP
    mP

    Ann

    Yes quite. The OT condemns the practice of astrology and seeking guidance from other gods.

    mP:

    And yet Daniel a hero worked as an astrologer for the king of Babylon and is miraculously saved. Everybody quotes Daniel and he is never condemned for this vacation.

    ANN:

    According to the OT, bad things happened to the Israelites when they became unfaithful.

    mP:

    They never win no matter what. Just look at what happened to their bestest king Josiah.

  • mP
    mP

    ANN

    • Seven-branched Menorah, called as 'Shabbat', is available in the stores. But, the Menorah used in Hanukkah has nine branches. It is called as Chanukiah (or Hanukkiah).
    • All the eight candles of Chanukiah must be in a straight line while Shamash (the 'servant candle') should be out of alignment with the other candles and should be positioned at the middle of the candelabrum, positioned slightly higher than the rest of the candles.

    MP:

    You might want to look up what Shamash means, clue Shamash is the Hebrew for Samson and it means sun. Samson was a solar god, the entire story is filled with solar imagery. The story of Samson is basically a hebrew form of the 12 tasks of hercules.

    long hair = sun rays, a sun without rays has no strength.

    dies in giza = the sun sets in the west.

    the two pilars he knocks over = pillars of hercules in the west

    The story is filled with calendar values, 7, 30, 12, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson

    Samson ( Hebrew : ?????????? , Modern Shimshon Tiberian Šimšôn , meaning "man of the sun"); [1] Shamshoun ( Arabic : ????? ‎ Shamshun / Šamšun ) or Sampson ( Greek : Σαμψ?ν ) is one of the last of the Judges of the ancient Israelites mentioned in the Hebrew Bible ( Book of Judges chapters 13 to 16).

    The Menorah represents the 7 heavenly bodies and they orbit the sun or candles.

  • mP
    mP

    Perhaps we should let Jospehus tell us a few things. Ive added some bolding to highlight the key portions.

    http://www.raptureme.com/resource/fj/war-5.htm

    5. When any persons entered into the temple, its floor received them. This part of the temple therefore was in height sixty cubits, and its length the same; whereas its breadth was but twenty cubits: but still that sixty cubits in length was divided again, and the first part of it was cut off at forty cubits, and had in it three things that were very wonderful and famous among all mankind, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar of incense. Now the seven lamps signified the seven planets; for so many there were springing out of the candlestick. Now the twelve loaves that were upon the table signified the circle of the zodiac and the year; but the altar of incense, by its thirteen kinds of sweet-smelling spices with which the s

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