Signs - Jesus - Has the Scripture Been Misread ?

by *lost* 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • *lost*
    *lost* - Interesting and enlightening theory on Jesus and the signs.

    wars, earthquakes, food shortages.

    What if Jesus meant the very opposite ?


    ( Jesus warning us as a safegaurd for us not to be mislead about exactly when the time would come )

    Many would come in his name saying they are the anointed and mislead many - then he talks about the wars, quakes, food shortages.

    How does this fit into the context.

    Maybe to debunk the idea that these upheavals are a sign the end is here or near.

    v6 - see that you are not terrified, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

    So is he saying that major upheavals are going to happen in the history of mankind - wars and reports of wars - but don't let them frighten you. Don't be mislead and think they mean the end is near/here.

    BECAUSE nations will fight each other, and there will be earthquakes, and there will be food shortages ( such is the inevitable future of this this wicked world so don't fall into this apocalyptic meaning to it ) but this is only the start of a tumulteous time for mankind.

  • EdenOne


    Interesting indeed. However, there's no escape to Matthew 24:14

    "And these good news of the kingdom shall be preached in all inhabited earth, in witness to all nations, and then the end will come." (v14)

    The term "and" denotes and event in sequence taking place after another event that came before.

    Just as the end will not come before the good news of the kingdom have been preached on a global scale, the good news of the kingdom will not be preached in all inhabited earth before religious division would plague christianity, causing many to lose faith, and paving the way for the false prophets [false religious leaders within christianity] to mislead many, resulting in lawlessness and the love of many [towards God] grow cold. " And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold." (v.10-13)

    In turn, this would not happen before a great persecussion would come upon the christians, as result of the nations hating them, and as a result many would be killed. "Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers." (v9)

    This persecution would erupt only after a period described in the Bible as " the first of the birth pains, with more to come." (v8) these would include wars, famines and earthquakes. Therefore, the preaching of the "good news of the kingdom" isn't necessarily contemporary to the wars, pestilence, famine, earthquaques, false christs, etc. What we know is that the end will come once the "good news" have been preached on a global scale.


  • *lost*

    Eden - thanks. interesting.

    Proclaimers book - Russel believed god would use contending factions of mankind to overthrow existing institutions.

    He said '' the work of demolishing human empire is beginning. The power that will overthrow them is now at work.''

    For the preparation of man for the kingdom of righteousness. thus they understood the war of Armageddon to be associated with violent, social revolution.

    The real purpose of this war, Jah will make a demonstration of his power - that the people may be convinced of their ungodly course and they must know it is Jahovah God.

    That is the reason why God brought

    • The great flood
    • threw down the tower of babel
    • destroyed the army of the Assyrian King
    • swallowed up the Egyptians

    The peoples of avery nation, kindred and tongue will learn that Jah is the all-powerful, all-wise and just God


    Composite sign / last days/conclusion of the system of things

    Critical times hard to deal with. ( last days marked by a change in human society. People, traits)

    The great tribulation. ( does destruction of B the Great come before GT)

    The apostasy would bear it's full fruitage of wickedness during the conclusion under Satan's control.

    • ridiculers
    • climate change ( floods, droughts, epidemics, hurricanes )
    • wars over resources
    • disasters
    • failure of human governments
    • family problems ( health crisis, Divorce, Death of loved a one )

    Just as in the days of Noah ( eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage - side note men marrying ? other men ? )

    So the presence of the Son of man shall be.



    Alcohol - abuse, misuse


    Immorality. Wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testomonies, blasphemies.

    Man of Lawlessness -man of sin, son of perditon ( lost child( ( the child of corruption ) (Judas)

  • Brother of the Hawk
    Brother of the Hawk

    Good post Lost.

    Edenone. There is an ecsape to Matt 24:14. Lets review for a moment, the Good news of the kingdom was the fact, that Jesus had been raised from the dead, man was no longer under "Adams" sin and death. (The scriptures point this out clearly. ) His disiples asked pointedly "When will these things be and the sigh of your presence"

    Before that destruction, in 70 c.e. Steven was stoned to death, Paul was imprisoned many times, they were hailed before governers.( they were persecuted for the sake of christs name ) they did preach throughout the world. Just look at any map that shows just Pauls tours. Not just one tour did he make, he made several. Josepheus records great earthquakes at that time also. Here is the fact that Jesus" presence" was with them at that time. The pouring out of the Holy spirit at Pentecost. the fact that those who had the holy spirt were raising the dead, curing the sick, speaking in toungs, was all proof that Christ was indeed with them, and directing them. Paul also said after our going away the Apostacy would develop, in fact he also stated it was already at work. Read his writings more closely, you can already see some were following others teachings, as if false Christs were already appearing.

    So now if it is stated by Paul that the Apostacy would come first, and then the end would come, than it seems to me that the preaching of the good news of the kingdom found its fulfillment before 70 c.e.. Now all we have to muddle through is Apostacy, ie. what the Evil slave presents, anything that misleads us from the Christ. ( or keeps us captive to a religious idelology )

    I asked this question on another thread with no response. Show me one scripture in the bible where Christ said his words would have a dual fulfilment in our time.

    Lost, keep up with your research, it's going to pay off. If you get to the point of needing something else to research, research the name Jehovah, when I did, I have come to not using it anymore.

    Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever)

  • *lost*

    BOH - thanks. I'm getting back into it - slowly. ( funny thing, I never felt comfortable saying Jrhovah, lol. just didn't feel right)

    Also see marvins post - Evil slave.

    I'm doing some good research on neanderthals ( more on that later )

    Say hi to NE

    much love


    Edited to add; Also i came across something a while ago when researching ( i forget where )

    Earthquakes - not just literal but also symbolic. Shocks, to the governments. Big changes.

  • Brother of the Hawk
    Brother of the Hawk

    Yes Lost, symbolically Earthquakes could also have application to Governments. My dad who was an Elder, also said many times these could also be concidered eathquakes. He is dead now, boy do I have much to tell him.

    affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever )

  • Crazyguy

    Brother hawk it would be good if you could elaberate more on why you no longer use the name Jehovah

  • Larsinger58

    Many secrets would be closed to understanding until the end times arrived. They have arrived and now we are looking back at many fulfilled prophecies.

    The "7 times" prophecy requires the 2nd coming to occur in a specific year, 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. The tricky part is getting the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem. Even so, you have a choice of three dates of focus: 607 BCE, 587 BCE and 529 BCE.

    Therefore, when you put the chronology in place, the "signs" were just confirmations of what would be going on and everything has been fulfilled.

    The "end" that the Jews were concerned with, was the "end of the system of things" of gentile domination. Thus the "end" actually occurred on November 30, 1947 when the Partition Agreement went into effect to restore Jews to their homeland.

    That very year, N.H. Knorr went on a worldwide speaking tour, demonstrating the "good news" had reached around the globe throughout the world of Christendom. But it also literally fulfilled that prophecy about the good news being preached worldwide just before the end came. Some think the "end" refers to Armageddon, but that is not the case.

    Kingdom Proclamation Surges Ahead
    With a view to worldwide expansion, on February 6, 1947, the Society’s president and his secretary, Milton G. Henschel, embarked on a 47,795-mile [76,916 km] world service tour. The trip took them to islands of the Pacific, New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asia, India, the Middle East, the Mediterranean area, Central and Western Europe, Scandinavia, England, and Newfoundland. It was the first time since 1933 that representatives of the Society’s headquarters staff in Brooklyn had been able to visit their brothers in Germany. Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world followed the two travelers as reports of the trip were published in issues of The Watchtower throughout 1947.
    (Proclaimers, p. 98)

    Whether a prophecy is fulfilled or not completely depends upon interpretation.

  • Larsinger58

    Note the Greek word for "earthquake" (seismo) can refer to a tempest (storm) and other sorts of social unrest. Thus in the context of social conditions in the world, what is translated as "earthquakes in one place after the other" is likely better translated as instabilities in place after the other.

  • EdenOne


    I'm sure that the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24:4-14 had a fulfillment in the first century. It wouldn't make sense if it hadn't. Josephus' writings confirm that there were earthquakes, false christs, etc, as part of the events leading to the tragedy in 70 CE.

    However, Jesus' words had also a greater fulfillment in the future, because:

    a) When he said to his disciples " But he responded, "Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!"(Matthew 24:2) When tourists visit the Old City of Jerusalem these days, one of the main attractions is the Wailing Wall (Kotel), which is a remnant of the ancient wall that surrounded the Jewish Temple 's courtyard. Since Jesus said "NOT ONE STONE WILL BE LEFT ON TOP OF ANOTHER", it seems rather odd that this wall made up of enormous stones, possibly the very stones that the disciples pointed out to Jesus in Matthews 24:1, is still standing. Therefore, one must conclude that Jesus' prophecy hasn't reached its entire fulfillment yet.

    b) Matthew 24:22: " In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God's chosen ones." The intensity of the calamity spoken of here, where all life would face potential extinction, (not just the jews sieged in Jerusalem) cannot apply to the calamity in 70 CE. Only in modern times is there the potential risk to wipe out all life on earth. Besides, if the Christians had fled Jerusalem after the first siege by Cestius Gallus in 66 CE, they wouldn't be present in Jerusalem by 70 CE; the "calamity" wouldn't need to be 'shortened for the sake of God's chosen ones', because they wouldn't be trapped by Titus' siege. But if we're talking about a global tribulation that would require shortening because of the 'chosen ones', this means that they would find themselves amidst the tribulation. How? Because the tribulation is global and they live in this world.

    c) Matthew 24:30 - " Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." - There's no record that such 'sign of the Son of Man' was ever produced in the first century, nor that 'all the peoples of the earth mourn' upon seeing the second coming of Christ. Surely this is still for the future.

    d) Matthew 24:32, 33 - "Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door." This is key. Earlier on his journey to jerusalem, Jesus had put a curse on a barren fig tree, that withered. (Matthew 21:19; Mark 11:13, 14, 20) Now Jesus recalled that incident to the mind of his disciples. 'Learn a lesson from the fig tree'. What lesson? Fig trees were used as symbols of the nation of Israel. (Hosea 9:10; Jeremiah 24:1-10; Luke 13:6-9). The barren fig tree that was cursed was a symbol of the Jewish nation being rejected for their spiritual barreness and for rejecting the Messiah. So now Jesus reminds that incident to his disciples and says: 'When the fig tree branches reblossom, these things are about to start happening'. Now, the Jewish nation was rejected in 70 CE - the symbolic withering of the fig tree. Therefore, the reblossoming of the fig tree cannot be the birth of the "Spiritual Israel" in Pentecost 33 CE, because "all these things" would happen AFTER the symbolic reblossoming of the fig tree. Therefore, it refers to events that would happen in the distant future.


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