CO talk at SAD appl. of 2 Thess. 1:8 & other mind control tactics

by Kensho 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Kensho
    Kensho

    Now that I am really "awake" at the assemblies I pay more attention to what the Borg's traveling enforcers say and the talk he gave was some "new light" on 2 Thess. 1:8 (probably his opinion)

    paraphrased " There is a thinking that has crept in somehow in the minds of some brothers over the years that because Jehovah is a merciful &loving God he will not destroy those who have not been reached with the good news in different parts of the world or my family or bible studies need just a little more time, well they need to read this script.

    (2 Thessalonians 1:8) in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.

    Well I guess either Jah is going to wipe out anyone who never gets a chance for a witness and bible studies that do not make a quick decision to get baptized and forget your procrastinating family members. (wow what a God of justice) or maybe this comment he later made is a clue for this application.

    " what if you had the power to bring Armageddon today? But you looked at the fact that if you waited for one more week the lives of 5,000 more people would be saved and they would thank you every day in the new system, so wouldn't you wait one more week? Then you would face that same situation the next week and the week after etc. as that is how many are being baptized world wide each week."

    I think the above along with all the recent major revisionist "new light" coming out, that the borg. Is setting up the R&F for a very long haul and eventually the dropping of 1914 as the beginning of the last days as the 100 yr. Anniversary is just around the corner.

    He went on to answer the question "why do we turn in FS time reports , I'm sure the first century cong. Didn't do that?"

    The answer...wait for it........"because the GB tells me to report my time!"

    well I guess that just sums it up...what mind control.

    Kensho

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    That just oozes love and compassion, and reverence for life, doesn't it? What pathetic nonentities these empty suits are!

  • Listener
    Listener

    "because the GB tells me to report my time!"

    That was quick. It was only a matter of time before they used they're newly created interpretation of the FDS to weild their power.

    No doubt they believe that as they are the only ones who have ever been appointed as the FDS (from 1919) there is no precedent set by any biblical character/s as to how they are to carry out their governing. But they conveniantly forget that they have only approved themselves to carry out spiritual feeding, nothing more.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w10 9/15 p. 10 par. 12 Earnestly Seek Jehovah’s Blessing ***

    We recognize that the end could come at any time; Jehovah’s timing is not contingent on our giving a personal witness to every individual on the planet. (Matt. 10:23)

    *** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 17 “Keep on the Watch” ***

    Fifth, we see a global preaching work being accomplished, which Jesus said would take place just before the end of this system. Jesus stated: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.

    *** w97 8/15 p. 14 par. 11 Living for Today or for an Eternal Future? ***

    Still, Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 10:23 are sobering: “You will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.” While the good news will surely be announced throughout the earth, we will not in person reach all parts of the earth with the Kingdom message before Jesus “arrives” as Executioner.

    --------------------A long history of saying not every individual will be reached

    *** w95 10/15 p. 28 par. 23 What Future for the Sheep and the Goats? ***

    Many are exposed to our message as we preach from house to house or informally. Others may learn of Jehovah’s Witnesses and what we represent in ways unknown to us. When judgment time arrives, to what extent will Jesus consider community responsibility and family merit? We cannot say, and it is pointless to speculate. (Compare 1 Corinthians 7:14.)

    *** w62 2/1 p. 96 Questions From Readers ***

    Accordingly, by means of his instructions to his twelve apostles Jesus was prophetically telling us today that his anointed disciples or the remnant of spiritual Israel would not complete the circuit of the entire inhabited earth with the preaching of the message of God’s established kingdom before the glorified heavenly King Jesus Christ would arrive as Jehovah’s executional officer in the battle of Armageddon. This means that Jehovah’s witnesses today, who now include hundreds of thousands of the "other sheep" or earthly companions of the spiritual remnant, will not be able to reach personally all parts of the earth with the Kingdom message before the battle of Armageddon breaks out.

    How does the WTS define "community responsibility"?

    *** w95 11/15 p. 16 par. 5 Stay in the "City of Refuge" and Live! ***

    Still others have persecuted and killed servants of God. Even if we have not done such things, though, we share community responsibility for the loss of human life because we did not know God’s law and will. We are like the unintentional manslayer ‘who killed his fellowman without knowing it and who did not hate him formerly.’ (Deuteronomy 19:4) Such individuals ought to implore God for mercy and should run into the antitypical city of refuge. Otherwise they will have a fatal meeting with the Avenger of blood.

    *** w66 9/15 p. 550 Is the World Bloodguilty Before God? ***

    Some have not willfully and deliberately done so, but share community responsibility for supporting the spilling of blood in wars.

    *** w57 8/1 p. 467 par. 3 Will You Get to Live on Earth Forever? ***

    When groups practice or support or tolerate evils there is a community responsibility for such evils, and to escape coming under this community responsibility individuals must separate themselves, if not physically then mentally and morally and emotionally.

    Not wanting to be in Satan’s power, they separate from the world that is completely under his power. In this way they do not come under the world responsibility for all its wickedness, and they will thereby escape destruction with it at Jehovah’s war of Armageddon.

    *** w53 10/15 p. 639 Questions From Readers ***

    The watchman class will faithfully perform the work to the extent Jehovah considers necessary, and by Armageddon all will come under individual or family or community responsibility before God.

    *** w52 6/1 p. 344 par. 13 Fixing Destinies in This Judgment Period ***

    In view of the eternalness of the destruction of those slain by Jehovah at Armageddon, some will ask about those who may not personally hear the message, especially in some lands that prohibit the witness work. In addition to family responsibility the Bible shows a communal or community responsibility, where a community upholds or goes along with rulers that persecute Jehovah’s people or are otherwise wicked. Did not the Egyptians suffer plagues because of Pharaoh’s hardness? (Ex. 5:1, 2; 9:13-16) Did not the Amalekites suffer for generations afterward because of Amalek’s opposition to Israel in the wilderness? (Ex. 17:8, 14, 16) King Saul brought trouble on Israel years after his death. (2 Sam. 21:1) David’s sins brought punishment upon the people. (2 Sam. 12:10-23; 24:10-17) Some relate some of this to ruler punishment rather than community responsibility, but it does show how the sins of one can affect many. It was unquestionably community responsibility when Achan trespassed and brought a military defeat on Israel. (Josh. 7:5, 13-21) Wicked men brought destruction upon the entire city of Gibeah, and those who supported Gibeah or merely refrained from helping punish her suffered with her. (Judg. 19:22-30; 20:40; 21:9, 10) Because King Jehoram of Judah deflected from God the nation went wrong and was punished. (2 Chron. 21:11-15) If idolatry started in a city in Israel and corrupted the inhabitants the city was destroyed. And other examples could be given. (Gen. 12:17; 20:9, 17; 26:10; Deut. 13:12-18) Matthew 10:14, 15, 23 shows households or cities that are unreceptive to the message will find judgment day unendurable. The principle applies on a national scale also.

    Some argue that ignorance is an excuse that will gain a resurrection for many of Armageddon’s slain, such as those perishing because of community responsibility. They will cite Paul’s case.

    If ignorance during this present judgment period is an excuse and is going to mean a resurrection for ignorant ones in the millennial reign, would it not be advantageous to let all remain ignorant now?If all those not personally preached to now and who are slain by Jehovah at Armageddon are going to return in the resurrection of mankind, why preach now at all? Even those who oppose the view that all Armageddon’s slain are forever dead will admit that those hearing but not accepting the witness now will perish eternally at Armageddon. Just for the sake of reasoning together, adopt their view for a moment. We preach to one thousand persons now, and perhaps one accepts the truth, while all the others reject it and die forever at Armageddon. But if we refrained from preaching to this one thousand, all would die at Armageddon but all would return in a resurrection, not having heard the message. Surely when they returned in that new world far advanced toward perfect paradise, with no corrupting humans around and demonic influence gone, so our opposers would incline to think and say, many more than one of that thousand would conform to new world requirements. Maybe only one would refuse. So why preach now and save one out of a thousand? Why not be silent now and save 999 out of a thousand?

    The gospel-preaching is going to be done earth-wide, for Jehovah says so. And whether it is done on the basis of personal or family or community responsibility, the peoples of all nations are going to be separated into "sheep" and "goat" classes, for Jehovah says so. Those whom he slays at Armageddon will remain forever dead, for his prophetic pictures made at the time of the Flood and at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction say so, along with the parable of the sheep and goats.

    What this means to us today is that those now living in this time of judgment and who fail for one reason or another to take a stand for Jehovah, and are therefore slain by him at the battle of Armageddon, will not be retained in his memory for a resurrection. That this group will include the majority of humans now living on earth is shown by Jeremiah 25:33: "The slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground."

    Those who fight Jehovah’s visible organization, upon which his spirit is manifest, sin against the holy spirit, unforgivably so. Those not participating in this opposition but condoning it or indifferent to it fit those the parable pictures as goats. Whether actively or passively or indifferently going along with the world in its assaults against Jehovah’s witnesses, individuals come under either personal or community responsibility therefor.—Zech. 4:6.

  • maccauk11
    maccauk11

    I invited two witnesses around ot my house for the last two weeks and i tell them all things were fulfillled in the 1st century. FOr example."truly i tell you soem of you standing here will not die until oyu see the osn of man coming on the lcouds". One example of who he was tlaking to. Finally theyadmitted it was true. But try to claim a double fulfillment in the future .SO ar ethey saying therte ar e2 resurrections, 2 seconfcomings, 2 armageddons. Interstingyl enough the lastest wathtower i saw on their website july 2012 is taking the partial preterist viewpoint. It seems all the past teaching are being done away with they mentioned the mistakes of 1914 but did not mention the "parousia" in 1914. For me Christianity has missed the boat big time all things have already been fulfilled in the 1st century. The Kingdom is here in the hearts of beleivers, Christ is King, he defeated the devil

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    if you waited for one more week the lives of 5,000 more people would be saved and they would thank you every day in the new system, so wouldn't you wait one more week? Then you would face that same situation the next week and the week after etc. as that is how many are being baptized world wide each week."

    ---

    This argument is absurd. World population is increasing at the rate of 365,000 babies born every day. That's 2,575,000+ every week. This means that every week God delays Armageddon he's obligated to murder an additional 2,570,000 people while "saving" only 5,000.

    The reality is, every day Armageddon is delayed results in more death, according to WT doctrine. Additionally, compared to even a few years ago, JW baptisms are decreasing, not increasing. So, while God is "saving" less and less people he's planning on killing more. Every day.

    134,000,000 births every year compared to 250,000 JW baptisms.You do the math!

    If anyone at WT headquarters took the time to look up the numbers and use a calculator they'd realize how completely absurd and unreasonable their argument is.

    According to Adam Clarke's Bible Commentary: " In flaming fire - Εν φλογι πυρος? In thunder and lightning, taking vengeance - inflicting just punishment on them that know not God - the heathen who do not worship the true God, and will not acknowledge him, but worship idols; and on them that obey not the Gospel - the Jews, particularly who have rejected the Gospel, and persecuted Christ and his messengers; and all nominal Christians who, though they believe the Gospel as a revelation from God, yet do not obey it as a rule of life."

    According to this comment, adverse judgment comes on those who know the Bible, and know god's will, yet refuse to worship him or live a decent life, and knowingly reject god. It would hardly seem reasonable for a person to be killed for not worshipping a god he's never heard of or for disobeying rules he was unaware he was breaking!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Blondie

    So I guess according to the GB, Paul was wrong when he said ," those without law, do by nature the things of the law..." (paraphrase).

    If " heathens " of Paul's day accomplish the law by following their conscience, then how could that not be the case today? Loving your creator and your neighbor, Jesus said the entire Law and the Prophets were centered around these 2 teachings.

    If we reason from the scriptures, it's easy to see that a God of Justice is not going to wipe out ignorant people. 2 Thess 1:8 was taken completely out of context. That is standard WTBTS procedure.

    Christ prayed for the Roman soldiers who participated in his execution. Why? If the WTBTS is correct, there was no point in doing that.

    If a man in India, who has never heard of Christ, but follows his conscience dies today, then what is his fate per WT doctrine? What if Armageddon comes today? Multiply that example by 1 billion..

    They are in darkness.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Going along the rubbish about 5,000 saved per week, why not just have Armageddon never come? Then there would be even more going into the cancer so they can waste their whole lives preaching about an event that is never coming.

  • panhandlegirl
    panhandlegirl

    marked

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    Ha,..

    Just thought about this,..

    Us anyone considered the current Jws that WILL be DFd while Jehovah extends brining on the big A?

    Someone being faithful for decades and now falls off the wagon waiting and now will be destroyed so some newbies can get in.

    talk about payback,..

    NJY

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