Wouldn't now be a good time to put the July 15 Watchtower in the middle of the table and ask to see the credentials on these men without fear of being suspected of apostacy?
To question anything = APOSTACY!
Doc
Good time for R&F to preemptively question GB validity
by irondork 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
DOC
Does that mean we shouldn't try?
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Newly Enlightened
ADCMS: There was another recent post on JWN regarding a doctrinal point highlighted at the 2012 DC. An Elder and his wife argued that the point was never said in the program, and that the JW that told them about it was promoting "apostate" ideas. That same JW located a recording of that demonstration on the program and played it for the Elder and his wife. After hearing for themselves that it was a WT teaching and was indeed on the DC program, the couple suddenly "forgot" they labelled it as an apostate teaching and went on to defend it (because now they knew it came from WT, so magically it was no longer "apostate").
I posted that and here's the link. It was shocking how deep the mind control went. They even told me that apostates had messed with the recording on Youtube! until they heard it on their own recording!!
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sammielee24
DOC - that is exactly why I asked the question BEFORE the article came out. The result was exactly what was expected - apostate. Now that the WT has printed what was asked and I was told it was apostate thinking, my next point to them will be - has the Watchtower been infiltrated with apostates? Has Satan reached in and is he running the organization with this sort of writing? One can keep arguing that the brain washing means nobody will change HOWEVER - I have noticed major changes in attitudes of many of the older ones now. It started with the generation change - the WT says 'many' dictionaries say that generation can mean overlapping however, I pointed out to my Elder that they don't support it with any reference. The majority of all dictionaries that I searched define generation as a single unit and therefore, if there are many, where are they? This Elder was so sure of himself on this point alone, he was rushing to do a search and find out for himself. He was stalled.
I noticed that previous ones who had pioneered, never missed a meeting, were absolutely faithful in every way - now don't attend the weekday meeting much, they don't go out in service much, no bible is open at all times and basically it is a Sunday ritual with the morning and evening meal prayer supporting. The further away they get, the more they look around and realize the con job. They may never leave because their life has been bound up inside - but their lack of faith weakens the organization as they will no longer be a force for a religion they cannot believe.
The truth is the truth. It is not subject to brightness. It does not need expansion. It does not need revision. If the truth is the truth it stands alone. Therefore - the generation teaching and the founding of the organization as the truth of the truth - are now either revealed as lies in the past or apostasy now. If the first, it means all those who spread the good word based on a belief in the truth - were all liars and pulling people into an organiztion of lies because the truth is simply the truth. Anything else is a lie. If I was an apostate for questioning the society change making Russell just a man of the world and NOT the founder - then what does that make the Society with this edition?
You can't change every mind - but you can certainly seize an opportunity to make them think....
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scary21
This reminds me of the post I made .... The pope helped me punk JW.......I told them the pope was in Cuba signing bibles for the high officials. After letting them go on and on about how awful it was, I broke it to them, It was the GB that did it.
They change their tune after telling them it's in the WT July 15,1999........Not so bad after all.....It is so funny (but sad ) to see how their minds work.
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Ding
I wonder if it would help to say to JWs, "Let's study this new light together."
Then together list side-by-side the old understanding and the new teaching so they can see just how big a shift it is and how it destroys the GB's claim that they are the heirs of the apostles' organization by virtue of some "faithful and discreet slave class" continuity from the first century.
Tell them you are confused by all this and ask them to explain why the GB used to believe the "old light" and what caused them to believe the "new light."
Granted, most JWs won't face the fact that the GB is making this stuff up as they go along, but some will.
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jw07
It's a very DIFFICULT task to wake most up, even with ammunition like that. I hinted at the new light to a group of 5 of my 'friends' recently. Their responses were basically: yeah, we understand that change already, wasn't there ALREADY an a study issue some months ago on that teaching? The GB certainly know what they are doing! The light is getting even brighter!
The GB have a cult of personality surrounding them, even though the average JW cannot identify all of them by name or face. To them they are a bunch of very old, very wise men who are ALWAYS RIGHT.
If there was new light at the next convention that circumcision is once again required, most JW males who aren't already would run to the doctor the next day to get snipped up despite the pain and permanent alteration.
@Gayle:
I really don't see shunning / disfellowshipping being revised. Those are 2 of the 3 hooks dug into the back of every zealous JW to get them to remain loyal, the other is 'being killed at armaggedon'. -
AndDontCallMeShirley
Scary21: After letting them go on and on about how awful it was, I broke it to them, It was the GB that did it.
They change their tune after telling them it's in the WT July 15,1999.
ADCMS: I've done the same thing you did with other subjects. I present whatever it is as a non-JW/non-WT source (another religion; a secular business) etc. All the facts and figures are accurate...the only thing I change is I do not reveal it's WT information. When a JW thinks they are blasting a "false" religion or a secular source, wow! You get an earful. When their rant is over, then I tell them that the story, the data, the facts are actually WT, first they are shocked and then they get angry!
You see, when a JW doesn't know it's WT, you get a truly honest, objective observation. Once the JW has shown how they really feel, they can't back out of it and say they didn't really mean what they said. This is the point where the JW gets angry. And, rather than acknowledge your point, and humbly realizing they may need to re-think their position, they now resort to an ad hominem attack- the JW will question why YOU "tricked" them like that! Then the back pedaling and defense of WT begins. It's actually quite comical yet at the same time very sad.
Their worship of the WT and the GB truly blinds them to reality and halts any critical thinking. Remaining blind is a conscious choice.
jw07 said:To them they are a bunch of very old, very wise men who are ALWAYS RIGHT.
The ironic thing is this statement is usually made right after a major doctrinal change!! The GB are always right....until they contradict themselves by revising, flip-flopping or discarding yet another long-held belief! Then the new belief is absolutely correct, beyond questioning....until it too gets scrapped.
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scary21
Don't call me Shirley, One really funny response I got from one of my moms older JW friends....In the end , when I told her it was in the WT she said " I don't read the WT anyhow " Granted she is old ( but still has weekly parties ) but I thought it was strange . ha ha
Yes, they only can think when it comes to OTHER people.
When it comes to the GB they are brain dead.
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scary21
Sammie, I love your reasoning. I get it. Makes perfect sense ........But JW's will have every excuse in the world.
It's still fun to see them try to get out of what they said before.
Sherry