Satan & the Garden of Eden

by love2Bworldly 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mP
    mP

    x

  • mP
    mP

    myelain

    the serpent is not representitive of messengers of God as you have stated but have been representitive of wisdom . For instance...the depiction of the serpent in the garden of Eden as "more cunning than any beast of the field" is drawn from what was commonly accepted in Egypt... the serpent was symbolic of wisdom .(that is why the serpent referenced "knowledge" to be like God) The pharoah had a headpiece that placed a serpent right in the middle of his forehead to symbolize his wisdom in ruling over the people.

    mP:

    Go read up about seraphims. Secondly the bible is jewish, the pharoahs can do whatever they want for whatever reason, that hardly reflects Bible content.

  • mP
    mP

    MyElaine:

    there is a contrast between the wisdom of God and the wisdom afforded satan throughout the bible. The wisdom of God gives life, the wisdom of the serpent brings death. It is shown in the bible that this is the way it has always been since the beginning. God works in mysterious and wise ways to draw men to Himself: John 3:14-15...

    mP:

    Like many christians you are conflating many characters and assuming the bible has just two rival gods. There are dozens of Gods in the BIble, they are all individuals, thats why they have their own different names.

    John may say wisdom that hardly means he is referring to Satan or the snake in anyway. I hae no idea why you brought this scropture up. Its quite evident its talking about a different unrelated matter, eg it has nothing to do with Adam and Eve and the snake.

  • mP
    mP

    Phizzy:

    Muslims put their women in a bag to go out in public, Jews make "love" through a hole in the sheet, Christians will not allow women to be leaders in their church.

    All of this springs from this story about a rib-woman scrumping some fruit. As if this isn't bad enough, they want to blame Satan for asking to be told if things are thus and so, and for telling the truth about how things really are.

    MP:

    I think your forgetting which came first. Man invented God so he could rule over his dumber neighbours. THe jewish, muslim and xian traditions are of course about putting women down, as these religions are very much heirarchical. Its always about control.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    I'm reading Steve Hassans book about combatting cult influences and the striking similarities between what he experienced and what the JW's experience is incredible. The sincerity of someone's faith does not make the extraordinary true, no matter how convincing._____Slavenomore

    Here's an example

    # 32 EXPRESS WITH CONVICTION

    What you need to do ?

    " Speak in a manner that shows you are fully convinced of the truthfulness and importance of what you are saying. "_____Theocratic Ministry school Book page 194

    " Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the great tribulation in which the present wicked world will end." _______Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 97

    LOL ,we all know what happen to that belief it was handed to an OVERlappin' generation

    and now Witnesses are forced to convince folks that's the " Troof " at least for now

    .

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    This is a broad and complex topic, but fascinating.

    First, the Jews definitely understood Satan better than Christians. Satan was married to Michael the archangel, who is Jesus Christ. Thus in pagan Jewish tradition, Satan evolved as the goddess/demoness "Lilith" who is a snake woman. Oddly, "Lillith" appears in Christian art but is not addressed in Christian doctrine. That is, you can look at the Sistine chapel and see Satan as a snake woman offering Eve the forbidden fruit, but where is the connection with Satan being a woman in any Christian dialogue? It's not there.

    http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Lilith/aNePics.html

    Satan-snake

    Another note in passing is that things in the Earth and Eden were a "pattern" of basic concepts in heaven. Christ is represented in the solar system as the Sun, Satan (his wife), the moon. Adam, the source of life, as well as the Tree of Life were representative of Christ. Eve, the beautiful wife and the Tree of Knowledge was representive of Satan, who was the most beautiful angel in heaven; that spiritual beauty representing knowledge and socphistication. Thus Satan, as the Mother Goddess in paganism is often associated with both knowledge (Sophia) aas well as beauty.

    Now on an esoteric level, Adam is more associated with the black man, while Eve is associated with being white. A man is a mixture of animal and and angel. The angelic nature of mankind is associated with his intellect; that is, the critical difference between man and animal is his intellect. He being created in "God's image" has to do with his intellectual capacity and sense of morality, etc.

    All men are created equal, but they are given different gifts. High intellect is something that whites seem to graduate toward more than others. I know this will offend some and I apologize, but some topics have to face reality. In general, when we speak of "advanced nations" and "third world countries" you are referring to the European world vs the non-white world.

    In the mysteries, this racist concept takes hold in association with knowledge. That is, as in Mithraism and Freemasonry one graduates away from the animal and toward the angel. That is, one moves away from the emotional side of mankind and toward the intellectual side of mankind which is less emotional. The concept of "Star Trek" reflects this quite well, where you have a comparison of pure intellect versus human emotions, which is considered either non-recognized or useless. Thus the machine world, which is pure intellect, wants to destroy the "carbon-based units" which "have no purpose."

    This basic concept even comes out in general concept as expressed by early Bible Students who believed that the original and perfect form of man was the white man, and that "growing back to perfection" meant that eventually everyone would become a white man. So all that to say this: Satan identifies with whites, the more intellectually based people and thus they become his target. Thus in Eden, Eve became his target, but also the "serpent" who was considered to be wiser than the other animals. Thus in Freemasonary and in Illuminati folklore, you have this focus on the "serpentine" or "reptilian" beings who are superior and give all this knowledge. But really it is just referencing how smart and superior white people appear as far as knowledge and advancement in the world. Thus reptilians are really a code for really smart white people.

    The other side of that equation, though, is the physical. The physical prowess and sexual prowess is more classically associated with the black man. But of course, the "balance" resides in the fact that SEX is such a big part of humanity and it is a physical act. That is the basis of myths like "The Beauty and the Beast", where you have a very upper-class smart and beautiful white woman, ignoring her white male counterpart whom she thinks is too self centered, falling for and preferring a "beast", clearly because of his sexual prowess. Part of this is reflecting Eve's curse which was to lust after her husband; that is, to lust after sex and in particular the sex of black men, who are often associated with sexual prowess and a large endowment in that area.

    Now I've brought this up to tell you how this coomplicates things on a "messianic" level since I'm the Christ. As we all can agree, the snake was really an innocent bystander but got punished. This is what I call "collateral damage." On a spiritual level, when the snake, the wisest of the beasts, repesents the white man primarily, it means in the greater scheme of things, since whites are an easy target for Satan, they would suffer collateral damage on a spiritual level. This might not seem fair or certainly it is unfortunate, but it is something we understand. Case in point, if a pony ends up throwing a young child which results in the child's death, we go out and shoot the pony, just for the sake of principle. So the pony becomes "collateral damage."

    We can see the generic reflection of this when we often state that the more education and college training someone has, the less they tend to believe the Bible or believe in God. Lots of challenges to the Bible and the Bible's history are rooted in science or pseudo-science. Science, which is the height of intellectualism is often characterized as being contradictory of the Bible.

    Now the fascinating turn in all of this in the Satan vs. Christ polemics, is that Satan considers higher intellect as meaning superiority of the human nature. Tha's why whites have been seen as the most advanced form of "evolution" compared to other races, but blacks the closest to the ape. Fine. But from Christ's point of view, he tends to think that too much intellectualism is a corruption at some point since "naturalism" is considered a purer form of humanity; you know, the so-called charm of the bushzwazee (i.e. Charm of the Bourgeoisie); that is, the everyday man and his sexuality. That's where all those classic themes come from where you have the rich woman of the house lusting after the gardner while her husband is away on business, essentially ignoring her. She lusts after the everyday man, the simple man, the sexual physicalman.

    But this is what Freemasonry and Mithraism tries to overcome. The goal is to suppress the physical and aspire to the pure intellectual. Thus we see Mithras killing the bull which results in prosperity. It's "mind over matter" essentially. If you can control your emotions, you can advance and prosper. This is exercised at all levels, including cultural, unfortunately. Thus a tenant of Mithraism or "the Mysteries" takes on a racial tone where whites are encouraged to separate from non-whites which allows them to exploit them more easily (Platonism). Thus key to the advancement of the white culture has to do with a consistent exclusion of non-whites. That's where "Affrimative Action" comes in, for instance. Or look at who the most celebrated men in the world are? Abraham Lincoln, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ghandi? And who is the most infamous of all men? Adolf Hitler. What do all of them have in common? Answer: White supremacy.

    In fact, an expressed concept of Freemasonry is that there are three groups of people, upper, middle and lower class. After the "New World Order" is established, the lower classes will be eliminated and then eventually the middle class, so that in the end, only the upper class will be left. In other words, the ideal world from the Freemasonry point of view is an all-white world, since non-whites are considered "pollutants" to the perfect society.

    This Secret Doctrine is explained by Alice Bailey, in her book, Externalisation of the Hierarchy, which was dictated to her by her demonic Guiding Spirit, Master D.K. Bailey explains that The Secret Doctrine teaches that there are always three distinct classes of human beings -- 1) Enlightened, Advanced Men, who were "sparked" by the Hierarchy; 2) Masses of ordinary people, with ordinary intelligence and spiritual knowledge, which are called, Middle Classes; 3) Savage races of people who are so ignorant and so lacking in spiritual knowledge they can barely be called human. [p. 47-48]
    The Secret Doctrine always sets the stage for a Holocaust, because those who are "fully enlightened" --Class 1 -- will soon be not able to tolerate the illiterate savages of Class 3. Thus, Hitler began to plan his planned annihilation of everyone he considered to be in Class 3; he cast the Jews into this group, plus gypsies, all people of Eastern Europe, blacks, and all handicapped and afflicted people, because he considered these people to be in this situation because of their bad Karma of a previous life. Thus, historians will tell you that Hitler killed 6 million Jews and 12 million "others", all in Hitler's Class 3. From: http://www.cuttingedge.org/free17.htm

    MY MESSIANIC CHALLENGE: Bottom line is, if Satan is targeting whites and exploiting the addiction of white superiority, I'm going to lose them. But any loss of humanity because of Satan is my own personal loss! So it turns out, in my quest to save as many whites from Satan's design as possible, I have to de-emphasize intellectualism, which is only seductive because it leads to "advancement" or wealth. But "wealth" is not a real concept under the rule of Christ, since wealth is virtually meaningless without servants and classism. That is, if you're in the middle of the jungle facing a lion, being rich isn't going to help you much. A degree in business administration is not going to help you much either.

    Now it is not about accepting me as the Christ or loving the message. It's just that being rich and having that lifestyle has such a hold on some. Just like the rich man who wanted to follow Christ. All was fine and good until Christ suggested he sell all his belongings and join him in a life of poverty. He just couldn't do it. That was because his IDENTITY was part of his being rich. What changes one's self perception? What changes one's "identity"? WEALTH and/or KNOWLEDGE. That's the scheme of "the Mysteries." Knowledge transforms you and then often rewards you with wealth and power. Once you have been there, it is very hard to go back to being happy as an "everyday person." But if you've never known wealth and power and the lifestyle of the rich and famous, then you can be completely happy with the common everyday life.

    CONCLUSIONS: You can talk about the Satan and the Garden of Eden all you want to, but until you realize Satan and Christ were once husband and wife, you're never going to understand what went on in Eden. Second, there is a clear basis of discussion as to whether certain kinds of knowledge is a form of advancement or corruption of the human spirit. Keep in mind that a world where everyone is equal is closer to communism than capitalism. It will be difficult for capitalists who aspire to be rich to be happy under Christ's rule. The Bible already acknowledges the difficulty of a "rich man" getting into the kingdom. Also, there is also the policy of "collateral damage." The snake, chosen by Satan, got cut down to size as part of the price of rebellion. That's a legal concept from Jehovah's standpoint that we have to live with. Bottom line, there's a very high price to be paid for a perfect universe, and Jehovah is willing to pay that price for what he wants. That price includes some unfortunate losses, but God is willing to live with those losses. Part of my commission as the Christ is to minimalize those losses as much as possible.

  • mP
    mP

    Lars: Can we plz have some quotes, it seems that your imagination is the actual source for much of this commentary. After all if this is Bible teaching then it shouldnt be hard to find scrptures.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear mP...

    you said to Lars, "After all if this is Bible teaching then it shouldnt be hard to find scrptures."...

    here's one for you: revelation 12:15

    love michelle

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    here's one for you: revelation 12:15

    This clearly refers to the rescue of Gwen Stacy in the Spiderman reboot. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Here is a quote for that:

    *** w57 8/15 p. 496 par. 11 Happy Are the Peaceable ***
    Swinging the light back to the start of man’s troubled history we see a spirit creature appointed as the guardian of man in the beautiful garden of Eden. This cherub was to direct man in matters pertaining to life and pure worship. But instead of walking in the paths that Jehovah had prepared the cherub turned rebel, coveting the worship of the first couple that was going to Jehovah, and determining to establish himself as universal ruler in place of the Creator. His first action was to entice Adam and Eve from the course of right worship. Thus were sown the first seeds of disunity and enmity, which have flourished until now between the organizations of Satan and Jehovah. Since that time Satan has built up a powerful worldly organization, which was described by Daniel as being like a great image with a head of gold, breast and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass, legs of iron and feet partly of iron and partly of clay. The covering cherub, or Satan, is himself the demonic god that controls this old-world organization.

    S

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