Thich Nhat Hanh

by wonderwoman77 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Wonderwoman,

    I'm very familiar with the writings of Hanh. I read his book on Mindfulness many years ago when I was a JW elder, and it had a profound influence on me. It was one of the reasons I left the Witnesses. I realized how much more sense this Vietnamese monk made than what I was hearing at the Kingdom Hall. I went to hear him lecture about five years ago. He's a remarkable man in many ways.

    In a strange set of coincidences, my literary agent, and the leader of the writer's group I belong to, is now Hahn's agent, and sold his last several books (beginning around the time he published "Christ and Buddha"). Hahn's American monastary is near where I live, and adjacent to my agent's house. In addition to getting excess vegetables from the monastary garden, I'm also afforded the opportunity to see his books before they're generally released.

    Buddhism as a philosophy interests me, but not so much as a religion. One of the nice things about it is that you don't have to have any belief in a god to be a buddhist. Takes a lot of the nonsense out of trying to create a spiritual life. Good luck with your quest.

    S4

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    Greetings SaintSatan,

    Love the name by the way. Yes, I am an Atheist. I'm a science nut so I applied the scientific method to the God problem and I have not yet found any compelling evidence to support belief in an invisible super-being who controls the Universe. This is especially true for the ethnocentric homocidal maniac God promoted by the Bible. Handing out death and destruction seems to be His answer to everything not to mention "inspiring" nonsense such as we find in most of the Bible.

    Zen-style Buddhism is not concerned at all with God's existance much as it is not concerned with an after life. The Zen masters say, "we cannot know so why waste our time with it?". I like that. I am still compelled to waste my time arguing against the Biblical God because of my JW training in being obsessive and obnoxiuos. Some day I hope to make peace with my own "demons" but for now, I kind of enjoy working out my frustrations and obsessions.

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    Liberty said:
    "his is especially true for the ethnocentric homocidal maniac God promoted by the Bible. "

    What makes you think the Bible promotes a view of God as a homocidal maniac? Just curious.

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    Hi Megadude,

    After years of reading the Bible it was clear to me that the Hebrews were instructed by their God to kill on a consistant basis anyone they deemed as unfit to live including women,children, babies, and pets. To my knowledge even the Nazis didn't have an official mandate to hunt down Jewish owned animals in order to kill them too. Since the Old Test. Bible is mostly about God providing the Hebews with the example of killing the whole of humanity and yet more innocent animals in a great flood, then fire from the Heavens in Sodom and G. burning to death more babies and animals, killing His faithful servant Job's innocent children and animals, then killing His own chosen people to punish them by allowing other tribes to kill Hebrew women and babies, when He himself was not killing innocent babies like David and Bathsheba's first son. The list goes on and on until we get to the New Test. where He kills His own son as a sacrifice, then destroys His chosen people again using the Romans, and then promises in the future to kill the majority of humanity including babies and animals again at the end of the world. I think we all can see a clear pattern here. If you disagree with God or are an unthinking animal or baby He will kill you if you aren't in the "right" culture or even just at the right place at the right time. If this doesn't describe a homicidal maniac then Hitler and Ted Bundy were real nice guys afterall.

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    Hi Liberty,

    Enjoyed your post. You said:

    "After years of reading the Bible it was clear to me that the Hebrews were instructed by their God to kill on a consistant basis anyone they deemed as unfit to live including women,children, babies, and pets."

    This is an interesting topic. My father fought in Viet Nam and along with his plane crew killed hundreds of North Vietnamese so I have thought about this issue a lot. Is killing sometimes a good thing?

    The Isrealites were surrounded by hostile tribes and cultures. A look at the history of that time reveals a more savage, violent world than we have today. I don't see how logically a base for the birth of Christianity could be established without violence, considering the cultures around the Isrealites were equally bloodthirsty and violent, and sacrificed their children to their Gods.

    As to the killing of women and babies and pets, my country, the USA, had no problem bombing civilians in World War II (Dresden, Germany)
    when we fought the Nazis. We certainly killed many women, children and pets when we dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. I see the above actions as extremely distasteful, but utterly logical. In the case of Japan, it ended the war and made unecessary an invasion by land.
    This saved American and Japanese lives.

    You used the phrase "innocent animals." I feel that way toward the pets I've had, my cats. I have felt animals are anything but innocent when I had a run-in with a bear in the middle of the night deep in the Yosemite forest, or when scuba diving and coming across a shark or large barricuda. Watching the Discovery Channel, I get the impression there is little that is innocent about animals, especially after I watched "The Trials of Life" series. If anything, animals are more savage than the worst of mankind.

    As to Job's children being killed, the Bible states that God allowed it, but did not do it. Satan murdered them by causing a windstorm to collapse a house on top of them. If the Bible is true and these children are resurrected to eternal life in complete peace and happiness, do you think they will really care what happened to them in their previous life?

    As to God's own son, it was men who murdered him. If the Isrealites hadn't done it by coercing the Romans to do it, somebody else would have had him killed eventually. He was too powerful a person and that threatened the established religious/political power structure.
    The fact is, Jesus wasn't stupid. He saw many Jewish radicals crucified in his time, I'm sure. He knew what would happen to him too if he persisted in his teachings.

    You made reference to a pattern in the Bible. I see one in world history. Man dominates man to his injury. History seems like a succesive group of men who gain power and then try to keep it at all costs, much to the misery of the general population. This is political as well as economic power. The Bible says this pattern will not end until God intervenes. I don't agree with everything in the Bible, and don't claim to understand it all, but this seems to be an irrefutable truth. As long as any kind of fear exists in this world, there will be violence. There is nothing about the history of mankind that gives me any confidence that we can establish a harmonious world system that works before we destroy ourselves through religious fanaticism, political fanaticism, or struggling for political/economic power. Unfortunately the world possesses the means to quite capably wipe out every human being off the face of the planet in one short nuclear exchange.

    Just my two "sense."

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    When I was just starting to get out of the WTS, my brother gave me "Living Buddha, Living Christ", by this author.

    It was very revealing to me, that if you live by the teachings of Buddha, you are also living by the teachings of Jesus Christ. That was a foreign thought to me, after being raised a dub, and thinking that no one else had it right.

    I am drawn to Buddhism, but not to an organized form of it. I do love the philosophy of it though.

    Marilyn (aka Mulan)
    "No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Mega,

    Great comments! Even as a Christian I have wondered about the split personality of God in the Old Testament and God in the New Testament. You've given me food for thought...

    I'd like to add something though...

    One thing I notice is that so many are angry at God for being a "homicidal maniac" for situations mentioned in the OT and for things today like 9/11. What they don't understand is:

    1. Humans wrote the bible in the context of their day. Which was a time period of great incivilities and horrific lifestyles by today's Western standards. I imagine old Israel's lifestyles being much like the "barbaric" lifestyles in the MidEast today.

    2. They are basing their beliefs on a book that is NOT perfectly written. Does that mean it's not inspired of God? I don't think so. God had a message to convey and He only had imperfect men to use as a tool. Maybe he could have spoken from the sky, but he knew humans were more apt to listen to their fellow man. Doesn't a good communicator take into consideration the best way a person is going to listen? Does that change the message? No. Christ came to replace the "old covenant" - the "new covenant" was one of love and peace. THAT is what Christian's should base their lives on - the walk of Christ.

    I realized in my exodus from Watchtower-dom, that I needed to re-work my picture of God. He is nothing like the angry, narcissistic, selfish God that JWs preach about. I had been lied to!!! God is nothing like that. But the JWs paint that picture of God to benefit themselves...keeping the numbers of members up by fear tactics. But God is the total opposite...He is loving, caring, compassionate, patient and has a great sense of humor! If we all looked at God pictured in that way, we wouldn't always be so angry when things go wrong in our lives.

    Just my two cents,

    Andi

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