How long did Jesus shun Peter for denying him 3 times?

by Terry 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Terry

  The answer is, of course, that Jesus did NOT shun Peter.

  Jesus expected human weakness to reveal itself. ( Matt 26:34 Jesus said unto him...before the rooster crows, thou shalt deny me three times. )

  Jesus did not judge people for their weakness. He judged people using that specific person's own standards when dealing with fellow humans!

  (New International Version (©2011)
  For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.)

  He understood that any human is susceptible to failures and that from one day to the next

  the same person could be strong one day and utterly disgraceful the next.

  ( New International Version (©2011) As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one).

  Jesus carefully taught that his followers should NOT concern themselves with identifying, calling out and condemning their fellow christians in his parable of the wheat and the weeds.

  Matthew 13:28-30 28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

  “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

  29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

  We have to ask, now, an important question.

  If Jesus expects humans to betray him sometimes and he didn't shun Peter...

  If Jesus only judges a person by how that person judges other people...

  If nobody, not even Elders and GB leaders are righteous......

  If Jesus does NOT want his servants worrying about separating good christians from bad ones...

  WHY DOES THE GOVERNING BODY of the Watchtower Society make a sacrament out of judging their fellow Witnesses?

  Why does the GB enforce policies that result in 70,000 sheep leaving the fold each and every year?

  What was JESUS' POLICY about sheep who leave the fold??

  Matthew 18:12-14

  New International Version (NIV)

  12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

  Conclusion:

  WHAT GIVES THE WATCHTOWER LEADERS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE, SEPARATE, SHUN AND ACT RIGHTEOUS IN SO DOING?

  Why is there no Reclamation Work specifically dedicated to reaching out to former members for the sake of preserving them?

  Why are former members labeled, reviled, called names and hated?

  Colossians 3:13

  New International Version (NIV)

  13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

  The anointed servants of Jehovah have busied themselves since 1879 with the WRONG duties!

  They have been making decisions for WHEN Jesus should return, WHEN Armageddon should arrive, WHAT true interpretations are and WHO deserves to be harvested--all contrary to their commission.

  Instead of trying to find "little ones" and drawing them into the body of Christ Jehovah's Witnesses have been reviling, judging and expelling sheep right and left.

  They are Evil Slaves. The are intoxicated with their own importance. They are false prophets. They are corrupt judges.

  Matthew 24:48-51

  Amplified Bible (AMP)

  48 But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,

  49 And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,

  50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,

  51 And will punish him [ [ a ] cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

  INSTEAD OF SHUNNING fellow christians the Governing Body should be on its knees begging their Ex-members to forgive them for hubris!
• 

  sir82

  Standard JW response:

  "Jesus, being perfect, could read hearts. He could read Peter's heart and know he was immediately repentant. Today, however, elders cannot read hearts. They must judge based on 'works that befit repentance'. If someone does not display such 'works', then the scriptural admonition is clear, he must be disfellowshipped."

  And yes I know that opens up a whole carton of cans of worms, but there it is. That's what a JW would say, and round and round you would go.
• 

  Londo111

  Terry:
• 

  Larsinger58

  Just as a record and mental note. Jesus told Peter he would deny him three times before a cock crowed (once) and another three times before a cock crowed twice. So Peter started denying Christ from the time he went into the compound and by the time Jesus was being accused he had denied him three times and then a cock crowed. He then immediately tried to leave. It was crowded and he had to get through the courtyard and then through the gate house and then outside. That didn't take that long but a girl was following him, continually accusing him so he had to keep denying Christ again and again before the groups of people he passed on his way out. When he finally got outside the cock crowed a second time, but by then he had denied Christ another three times.

  Just a note for those who have the capacity for details.

  Nice post.

  From the position of one of the "anointed", the parable of the sheep and goats specifically applies to the WTS, which is the public temple oranization. It was infiltrated with weeds from early on as evidenced by CT Russell's pyramidology and Freemasonry connections. So the WTS was allowed to be infected but continued to serve as the temple until the "harvest" which was late in that generation of 1914-1994, at which point the sheep would be separated from the goats. Instead of kicking the goats out of the organization and cleansing it, though, he removes the sheep, the "little flock" and abandons the WTS, which is now apostate since 1996. But remember, Christ sent out "ten slaves" to do work. The WTS is just one of those ten and ends up being the "sluggish" slave and thus the evil slave. So Christ has "other sheep not of this fold" meaning he gathers sheep in various places. So the true Christians associated with the WTS are taken out, spiritually speaking, and they are brought to where Christ has his other sheep gathered. Those with the WTS have absolutely no concept whatsoever that there are others that are approved by Christ.

  The GB is seen as the "evil slave" and the "man of lawlessness" from Jehovah's point of view! Nobody told them to have men with multiple wives to divorce all but the first, causing all kinds of disruption and pain. Nowhere in the Bible is polygamy condemned! The Bible clearly removes ALL dietary restricftions from Christians noting that "nothing" that you take into the mouth defiles you. What part of "nothing" doesn't the WTS understand. So tobacco and blood are not restrictions for Christians. The bible clearly notes, for instance, that in the home of an unbeliever or at the meat market (when you're alone) to buy whatever you want and eat without question. So clearly the command to "abstain from blood" was in the context of believers with weak consciences! The Bible clearly also noted that not a single word was to be revised in scripture. The WTS did not trust that the surviving manuscripts were good enough and so imagined the divine name in Greek was used by the Jewish christians, with zero evidence to that effect. So they changed the divine word, substituting "Jehovah" for "Lord" and "God" where they thought it should be. But Jesus is also called "Lord" so how could they tell if the reference was to Jesus or Jehovah? They can't. So instead of making linear notes, they ended up making the NT an exegetical work when they don't know what the f**k they are doing! That's why they, represented by the lamb-dragon beast, will be cast into the lake of fire right along with Christendom, the 666-trinity-believing beast! And those witnesses not paying attention or worshpping the WTS' "faithful and discreet slave" god will become guilty of idolatry and miss out on their hope of life during the 1000-year reign of Christ.

  The WTS is now apostate and part of Satan's world. The true sheep have been removed (spiritually and literally)
• 

  Terry

  I say that disfellowship policy is like trying separate the wheat from the weeds and the danger is that you get rid of somebody

  that Jesus would have kept because you aren't Jesus!

  Secondly, I say the evidence of bad faith on the part of Elders and GB is evident by the total lack of compassionate ministry to former members.

  You simply NEVER get the impression they really love you and want you back.

  Ex-JW's leave with a giant bootprint on their ass and a lingering "Good riddance" ringing in their ears.

  Being an Elder is about identifying the enemy and putting your foot up their ass.

  Being a Christian is about compassion and unity and putting your arm around the stray sheep.
• 

  ABibleStudent

  Terry, Good observation about Jesus not shunning Peter even though he knew that Peter would deny him. Another scripture that does not justify the WTBTS's shunning policy is John 6:60-70. Jesus did not shun the disciples, who left him, and did not shun Judas even though he knew that Judas would betray him.

  John 6:60-70

  New International Version (NIV)

  Many Disciples Desert Jesus

  60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

  61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit [ a ] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

  66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

  67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

  68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

  70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

  Of course no "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs would not see this discrepancy in WTBTS's doctrines.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Maybe Peter was "privately reproved" and lost some privileges for a while. Then, after he went through a grovelling process lasting anywhere from several months to a year or more, he was allowed to slowly regain his congregational "privileges" after the Elders sufficiently humiliated him for being nothing more than human who made a mistake.

  You see, "forgiving and forgetting" may work for Jesus, but the Watchtower does things differently! Jesus may have forgiven you, but the WT still demands their pound of flesh.

  All kidding aside, Terry, great post!

  Of course, one does not need to dig too deeply into scripture to realize how completely baseless the Watchtower's policy is of disfellowshipping. It is the product of nothing more than legalistic bullying by modern-day Pharisees, who bind heavy loads on others they themselves refuse to budge with a finger.

  Terry said: Ex-JW's leave with a giant bootprint on their ass and a lingering "Good riddance" ringing in their ears.

  This being the case, is it any wonder why 2 out of 3 never come back?
• 

  Terry

  Bottom line?

  Where do the active minds, the curious, those who care enough to make sure of all things---where do these people BELONG?

  In view of DF policies...they belong outside where the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth occur!
• 

  straightshooter

  Terry you created an excellent post. Sad to say that the WTS want followers who blindly accept whatever the GB says. Any who question the GB logic are not wanted. The process of df is wrong and you reasoned well on this subject.
• 

  monkeyman

  Terry.....nice post. You speak for countless ones who cant speak for themselves. Hopefully, one day this disgraceful policy will be modified to conform to the biblical format for which it was intended.