Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-07-2013 WT Study (HERITAGE)

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  • blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-07-2013 WT Study (FEBRUARY 15, 2013, pages 3-7)(HERITAGE)

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    “This is the heritage of

    Jehovah’s servants.”

    —ISA. 54:17, Byington.


    What has God done to preserve

    his written Word?

    How has Jehovah’s name been

    preserved for the use of his


    Explain how God has preserved

    spiritual truth despite assaults on it.


    Does the WTS truly use historic methods? Is their history and documents open to all or just in-house staff? Does the WTS compare historical reports from other sources or primary sources outside the WTS.


    1. What has Jehovah lovingly preserved for the benefit of


    JEHOVAH, “the living and enduring God,” has preserved

    his life-giving message for mankind. It is sure

    to last, for “the saying [or, “word,” Byington] of Jehovah

    endures forever.” (1 Pet. 1:23-25) How grateful

    we are that Jehovah has lovingly preserved such vital

    information in his written Word, the Bible!


    Note that the WTS allows themselves to use a snippet from another translation.

    He may have preserved the bible, but has he. How many original manuscripts exist today? How accurate are they. But, God was not able to preserve his real name.

    2. In his written Word, what has God preserved for the use

    of his people?

    2 In his Word, God has preserved for the use of

    his people the very name he chose for himself. The

    Scriptures first mention “Jehovah God” in “a history

    of the heavens and the earth.” (Gen. 2:4) God’s

    name was miraculously inscribed several times on

    the stone tablets bearing the Ten Commandments.

    For instance, the first commandment began: “I am Jehovah

    your God.” (Ex. 20:1-17) God’s name lives on

    because the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has preserved

    his Word and his name despite all satanic efforts to

    eliminate them.—Ps. 73:28.


    Has he preserved his name but rather a construct by a Spanish monk, part of false religion?

    3. Though religious error abounds, what has God preserved?

    3 In his Word, Jehovah has also preserved the

    truth. Though religious error abounds worldwide,

    how thankful we are that God has given us spiritual

    light and truth! (Read Psalm 43:3, 4.) Whereas

    the masses of mankind walk in darkness, we joyfully

    keep on walking in God-given spiritual light.—1 John

    1:6, 7.


    If God cannot protect his true name, how could he preserve truth and why would he need humans or their organization to do so?

    The WTS would like you to believe that truth and light only come through the WTS that they are only way to God. (Remember Jesus?)

    *** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible—A Book Meant to Be Understood ***

    Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.


    4, 5. What special privilege has been ours since the year


    4 As Christians, we have a precious heritage. Says

    Collins Cobuild English Dictionary: “A country’s heritage

    is all the qualities, traditions, or features of life

    there that have continued over many years and have

    been passed on from one generation to

    another.” Our spiritual heritage includes

    the blessing of enjoying accurate knowledge

    of God’s Word and a clear understanding

    of the truth about him and his

    purposes. It also involves a very special



    Christians = only jws

    OUR spiritual heritage = only jws

    ACCURATE knowledge (of God’s Word as defined by WTS publications)

    CLEAR understanding of the TRUTH (truth according to the WTS, ever-changing)

    Very special PRIVILEGE (only for jws)

    So did the WTS choose this dictionary for some special reason? At least they did cite the source not just saying “one dictionary says.”

    5 That privilege became part of our

    spiritual legacy at our convention in Columbus,

    Ohio, U.S.A., in 1931. The letters

    “JW” appeared on the printed program.

    One sister said: “Speculations

    were made as to what JW stood for—Just

    Wait, Just Watch, and the correct one.”

    We had been called Bible Students, but

    we adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses

    by resolution on Sunday, July 26,

    1931. It was a thrill to receive that Scriptural

    name. (Read Isaiah 43:12.) “I will

    never forget the tremendous shout and

    applause that vibrated through that

    meeting place,” recalled one brother. No

    one else in the world wanted that name,

    but God has blessed us in the use of it for

    over eight decades. What a special privilege

    it is to be Jehovah’s Witnesses!


    Were Jesus’ followers ever addressed as Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    (Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me (Jesus) both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.”

    (Revelation 1:9) . . .I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat′mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.

    (Revelation 12:16, 17) . . .. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.

    (Revelation 17:6) 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.. . .

    (Revelation 19:10) . . .All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.”

    Not a special PRIVILEGE to be a CHRISTIAN which was the name given to Jesus’ followers by DIVINE PROVIDENCE?

    (Acts 11:25, 26) 25 So he went off to Tarsus to make a thorough search for Saul 26 and, after he found him, he brought him to Antioch. It thus came about that for a whole year they gathered together with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

    6. Our spiritual heritage includes what accurate


    6 Our spiritual heritage includes a

    wealth of accurate and valuable information

    from the past. For example, consider

    Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These patriarchs

    and their families must have had

    discussions about how to please Jehovah.

    So it is not surprising that upright

    Joseph rejected sexual immorality so as

    not to “sin against God.” (Gen. 39:7-9)

    Christian traditions were also handed

    down orally or by example. Among these

    were points regarding the Lord’s Evening

    Meal that the apostle Paul passed

    on to Christian congregations. (1 Cor. 11:

    2, 23) Today, details needed for us to worship

    God “with spirit and truth” are part

    of his written Word. (Read John 4:23,

    24.) The Bible is for the enlightenment

    of all mankind, but we as Jehovah’s servants

    especially appreciate it.


    Must have had?

    While Joseph may have recognized personally about sexual immorality (actually adultery because having sex with multiple single women was not a sin then)

    Judah was not so moral. But the WTS excuses him saying there was no Mosaic law yet. The same could be said of Joseph, no Mosaic law.

    *** w11 7/1 p. 30 How to Resist Temptation ***

    Why, do you think, did Joseph feel that committing adultery would be a sin against God when, at the time, there was no law from God against adultery?

    *** w03 12/1 p. 20 Do You Always Need a Bible Command? ***

    Consider the example of Joseph. At the time he was confronting the immoral advances of Potiphar’s wife, there was no divinely inspired written law against adultery. Yet, even without a direct law, Joseph perceived that adultery was a sin not only against his own conscience but also “against God.” (Genesis 39:9) Evidently, Joseph recognized that adultery was in violation of God’s thinking and will, as expressed in Eden.—Genesis 2:24.

    *** w02 4/15 pp. 20-21 par. 10 Guide Your Steps by Godly Principles ***

    Though Jehovah had not yet given a written law against adultery and no divine sentence was prescribed for having relations with another man’s wife , Joseph was aware of the principles of God-ordained marital faithfulness

    *** w73 6/15 p. 384 Questions From Readers ***

    As far as Judah was concerned, he thought he was having relations with a prostitute. In this he was not acting right, for it was God’s original purpose for a man to have relations with his wife and not for the earth to be filled with prostitutes. Still, Judah did not sin in the sense of transgressing a specific command of God’s law, for the Mosaic law was not given until much later.—Gen. 2:24; compare Leviticus 19:29.

    7. Our legacy includes what heartening promise?

    7 In part, our spiritual heritage consists

    of more recently published accounts

    proving that ‘Jehovah is on our

    side.’ (Ps. 118:7) This makes us feel secure,

    even when we are persecuted. A

    heartening part of our ever-increasing

    spiritual heritage is this promise: “ ‘Any

    weapon whatever that will be formed

    against you will have no success, and any

    tongue at all that will rise up against you

    in the judgment you will condemn. This

    is the hereditary possession [or, “heritage,”

    By] of the servants of Jehovah, and

    their righteousness is from me,’ is the utterance

    of Jehovah.” (Isa. 54:17) Nothing

    in Satan’s arsenal of weapons can do us

    permanent harm.


    I wonder what non-jws think that the WTS only has God’s blessing?

    This shows how important the WTS thinks they are, that they are exclusively Satan’s target. Satan doesn’t have to do anything, the WTS will sink themselves.

    Picture: We were delighted to accept the name Jehovah’s

    Witnesses at our convention in 1931

    8. What will we consider in this article and in

    the next?

    8 Satan has tried to destroy God’s

    Word, eliminate the name Jehovah, and

    suppress the truth. But he certainly is

    no match for Jehovah, who has foiled all

    these efforts. In this article and in the

    next, we will see (1) how God has preserved

    his Word; (2) how Jehovah has

    seen to the preservation of his name;

    and (3) how our heavenly Father is the

    Source and Preserver of the truth we enjoy.


    Satan has not destroyed God’s name, God has failed to preserve his actual name.


    9-11. What examples show that the Bible has

    survived various assaults?

    9 Jehovah has preserved his Word

    against all odds. Says the Enciclopedia

    Cattolica (Catholic Encyclopedia): “In 1229,

    the Council of Toulouse prohibited

    laymen from using them [vernacular

    Bibles] in view of the fight against

    the Albigenses and the Waldenses . . .

    The assembly held in 1234 in Tarragona,

    Spain, under James I issued a similar

    prohibition. . . . The Roman See intervened

    in the matter for the first time

    in 1559, when Paul IV’s Index forbade

    the printing and possession of vernacular

    B[ibles] without the permission of

    the Holy Office.”


    So what does the WTS leave out…

    And does the WTS mention that since 1950 with the first volume of the NWT, it has strongly discouraged jws from using other translations. For 71 years the WTS had managed to teach their “truth” with other Bibles. Was the truth only available in the NWT?

    *** w85 11/1 p. 29 Part 1—Modern Stewardship of God’s Sacred Word ***

    Turning to Appendix 1A, we find the title: “The Divine Name in the Hebrew Scriptures.” Under this title, the appendix shows that the New World Translation renders YHWH as Jehovah all 6,827 times that it occurs in the traditional Hebrew text. It also adds 146 warranted restorations, making a grand total of 6,973 times that the name Jehovah appears from Genesis to Malachi. No other Bible translation gives this rightful place to Jehovah’s name. That alone makes the New World Translation superior to all others .

    Really, then why does the WTS say the following:

    *** w92 12/15 p. 9 par. 5 Jehovah, the Doer of Wondrous Things ***

    We can be grateful that the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, as well as a number of other careful translations, have restored the divine name to its rightful place in God’s Word.

    10 Despite various assaults on the Bible,

    it has been preserved. About 1382,

    John Wycliffe and his associates produced

    the first Bible translation in English.

    Another Bible translator was William

    Tyndale, who was put to death in

    1536. Tied to a stake, he reportedly cried

    out, “Lord, open the eyes of the king

    of England.” Then he was strangled and



    While the bible might have been preserved, the accurate pronunciation of God’s name was not. How could an all-powerful God preserve one without preserving the other?

    If the WTS could execute disobedient jws, would they? The only thing holding the WTS back now is that secular governments do not allow it. “Theocratic nations” only Israel.

    *** w52 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***

    We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

    11 The Bible has survived in the face

    of opposition. In 1535, for instance, the

    English translation of the Bible by Miles

    Coverdale came on the scene. Coverdale

    used Tyndale’s rendition of the “New

    Testament” and of the “Old Testament”

    from Genesis through Chronicles. He

    translated other parts of the Scriptures

    from Latin and from Martin Luther’s Bible

    in German. Today, the New World

    Translation of the Holy Scriptures is appreciated

    for its clarity, fidelity to the Bible

    text, and usefulness in our ministry. We

    rejoice that no demonic or human power

    will ever block the preservation of Jehovah’s



    Other than jws, how many people have a NWT recognizing its superiority over other bibles?

    While the WTS occasionally quotes from other translations in its publications, what if you as a jw in the audience chose to use another translation to read in your answer?


    12. What role has the New World Translation

    played in the preservation of the divine name?

    12 Jehovah God has seen to it that his

    name is preserved in his Word. In this

    regard, the New World Translation is

    playing a major role. In the introduction,

    From Foxe’s Book of Martyrs

    Such men as Tyndale gave their lives

    for the sake of God’s Word

    its committee of dedicated translators

    wrote: “The foremost feature of this

    translation is the restoration of the divine

    name to its rightful place in the English

    text. It has been done, using the

    commonly accepted English form ‘Jehovah’

    6,973 times in the Hebrew Scriptures

    and 237 times in the Christian

    Greek Scriptures.” The New World Translation

    is now available, in whole or in

    part, in over 116 languages, and more

    than 178,545,862 copies have been



    Has God’s name been preserved or only a 1270 A.D. version crafted by a Spanish monk? So was this by holy spirit?

    *** w80 2/1 p. 11 The Divine Name in Later Times ***

    Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as “Jehova.” This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E.—over 700 years ago.

    Here is how the WTS explains it away. Some scholars, other scholars—who? Probably?

    *** w08 9/1 p. 31 Why Use God’s Name if Its Pronunciation Is Uncertain? ***

    Some scholars , though, recommend the pronunciation “Yahweh.” Is that closer to the original pronunciation? No one can be certain. Actually, other scholars have cited reasons for not using this pronunciation. Of course, Bible names, when spoken in a modern-day language, probably sound nothing like the original Hebrew, and hardly anyone objects. This is because these names have become part of our language and they are easily recognized. So it is with the name Jehovah.

    13. Why can it be said that people have known

    God’s name since the creation of mankind?

    13 People have known God’s name

    since the creation of mankind. Adam

    and Eve were aware of it, and they knew

    exactly how to pronounce it. When Ham

    showed disrespect for his father after

    the Flood, Noah said: “Blessed be Jehovah,

    Shem’s God, and let [Ham’s son]

    Canaan become a slave to him.” (Gen.

    4:1; 9:26) God himself declared: “I am Jehovah.

    That is my name; and to no one

    else shall I give my own glory.” God

    also stated: “I am Jehovah, and there is

    no one else. With the exception of me

    there is no God.” (Isa. 42:8; 45:5) Jehovah

    has seen to it that his name has

    been preserved and made known to people

    around the earth. How privileged we

    are to use the name Jehovah and serve

    as his Witnesses! In effect, we cry out:

    “In the name of our God we shall lift our

    banners.”—Ps. 20:5.


    So after Adam and Eve sinned, did they forget how to pronounce God’s name and could not pass it on to their children and grandchildren, after all Adam lived 930 years. The WTS says the flood came in 2370 BCE, meaning that Noah would have been just the 3 rd generation. Could they have forgotten by then….down through the Israelite history to Jesus day, while the Jews might not have used God’s name, they had not forgotten what it was, certainly Jesus knew what it was and did he use it, know the correct pronunciation and share it with his followers?

    Why could God preserve the bible but not his true name?

    Where in the NT does the phrase Jehovah’s Witnesses or witnesses of Jehovah occur? Nowhere.

    14. Other than in the Bible, where can God’s

    name be found?

    14 God’s name does not appear only

    in the Bible. Consider the Moabite

    Stone, found at Dhiban (Dibon), 13 miles

    (21 km) east of the Dead Sea. The stone

    mentions Israel’s King Omri and gives

    Moabite King Mesha’s version of his re-

    volt against Israel. (1 Ki. 16:28; 2 Ki. 1:1;

    3:4, 5) But the Moabite Stone is of special

    interest because God’s name appears on

    it in Tetragrammaton form. The Tetragrammaton

    also appears repeatedly in

    the Lachish Letters, earthenware fragments

    found in Israel.


    Yes, the 4 letters, but no vowels, so no way of knowing how to pronounce God’s name.

    15. What is the Septuagint, and how did it come


    15 Early Bible translators had a part

    in the preservation of the divine

    name. After their exile in Babylon from

    607 B.C.E. to 537 B.C.E., many Jews did

    not return to Judah and Israel. By the

    third century B.C.E., Alexandria, Egypt,

    had become the home of numerous Jews

    who needed a translation of the Hebrew

    Scriptures into Greek, then an international

    language. Completed by the

    second century B.C.E., that version is the

    Septuagint. Some copies of it contain the

    name Jehovah in its Hebrew form.


    In its “Hebrew” form? Any vowels?

    16. Give an example of the use of God’s name

    in a book first published in the year 1640.

    16 The divine name is found in the Bay

    Psalm Book, the first piece of literature

    published in England’s American colonies.

    Its original edition (printed in 1640)

    contains the Psalms, translated from Hebrew

    into the English of that day. It uses

    God’s name in such passages as Psalm

    1:1, 2, which says that a “blessed man”

    does not walk in the advice of the wicked,

    “but in the law of Iehovah, is his longing

    delight.” For more information about

    God’s name, see the brochure The Divine

    Name That Will Endure Forever.


    Is the true form and pronunciation in the Bay Psalm Book or the Spanish monk crafting of Jehovah, truly the name Adam would have used? Or Jesus would have used?



    17, 18. (a) How would you define the word

    “truth”? (b) “The truth of the good news” consists

    of what?

    17 We joyfully serve “Jehovah the God

    of truth.” (Ps. 31:5) “The truth about

    something is all the facts about it, rather

    than things that are imagined or invented,”

    says Collins Cobuild English Dictionary.

    In Biblical Hebrew, the term often

    translated “truth” pertains to something

    that is true, trustworthy, faithful, or factual.

    The Greek word rendered “truth”

    denotes that which conforms to fact or to

    what is proper and right.


    So is “Jehovah” the facts about God’s name or something imagined or invented. Is it right or proper?

    18 Jehovah has preserved spiritual

    truth and has made knowledge of it

    available to us in ever-increasing abundance.

    (2 John 1, 2) Our comprehension

    of the truth steadily becomes clearer, for

    “the path of the righteous ones is like

    the bright light that is getting lighter

    and lighter until the day is firmly established”!

    (Prov. 4:18) Of course, we fully

    agree with Jesus, who said in prayer to

    God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17)

    God’s written Word contains “the truth

    of the good news,” which consists of the

    whole body of Christian teachings. (Gal.

    2:14) In part, these include facts about

    Jehovah’s name, his sovereignty, Jesus’

    ransom sacrifice, the resurrection, and

    the Kingdom. Let us now consider how

    God has preserved the truth despite Satan’s

    attempts to suppress it.


    If God cannot provide the “spiritual truth” about how to pronounce this name, what kind of truth does the WTS offer. How bright can the light be if the fundamental aspect of WT truth leaves out the most important, his true name?

    *** w08 9/1 p. 31 Why Use God’s Name if Its Pronunciation Is Uncertain? ***

    Some scholars , though, recommend the pronunciation “Yahweh.” Is that closer to the original pronunciation? No one can be certain. Actually, other scholars have cited reasons for not using this pronunciation. Of course, Bible names, when spoken in a modern-day language, probably sound nothing like the original Hebrew, and hardly anyone objects. This is because these names have become part of our language and they are easily recognized. So it is with the name Jehovah.



    19, 20. Who was Nimrod, and what endeavor

    failed in his day?

    19 After the Flood, there was a saying:

    “Just like Nimrod a mighty hunter

    in opposition to Jehovah.” (Gen. 10:9)

    As an opposer of Jehovah God, Nimrod

    in effect worshipped Satan and was like

    those opposers to whom Jesus said: “You

    are from your father the Devil, and you

    wish to do the desires of your father.

    That one . . . did not stand fast in the

    truth.”—John 8:44.


    “in effect” worshipped Satan

    I wonder if non-jws realize the WTS and its members believe they are all Satan worshippers. In effect that is.

    *** w90 12/1 p. 6 Which God Should You Worship? ***

    Satan has enormous influence. The apostle John said that “the whole world” is lying in his power, and Paul called him “the god of this system of things.” (1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 4:4) Hence, worship of any god apart from Jehovah is really worship of Satan.

    20 Nimrod’s domain included Babel

    and other cities between the Tigris and

    Euphrates rivers. (Gen. 10:10) It was possibly

    under his direction that the building

    of Babel and its tower began about

    2269 B.C.E. Contrary to Jehovah’s will

    that mankind spread throughout the

    earth, those builders said: “Come on!

    Let us build ourselves a city and also a

    tower with its top in the heavens, and

    let us make a celebrated name for ourselves,

    for fear we may be scattered over

    all the surface of the earth.” But that

    scheme had to be abandoned when God

    “confused the language of all the earth”

    and scattered the would-be tower builders.

    (Gen. 11:1-4, 8, 9) If Satan had thus

    planned to start one religion with everyone

    worshipping him, his plot was an

    utter failure. Throughout human history,

    the worship of Jehovah has prevailed

    and is gaining momentum with each

    passing day.




    Noah and Shem were still alive…why then did they have no influence on Nimrod and their other descendants?

    21, 22. (a) Why has false religion never posed

    a serious threat to true worship? (b) What will

    we consider in the following article?

    21 Never has false religion posed a serious

    threat to true worship. Why? Because

    our Grand Instructor has seen to

    the preservation of his written Word,

    has kept his name before mankind, and

    has been the limitless Source of spiritual

    truth. (Isa. 30:20, 21) Worshipping

    God in accord with the truth brings us

    joy, but doing so requires that we remain

    spiritually vigilant, relying fully on Jehovah

    and following the guidance of his

    holy spirit.


    Actually prior to 1950, the WTS taught that all religion was bad and that they were not a religion.

    *** w51 3/15 p. 191 Questions From Readers ***

    In the past we regarded “religion” as anything that was against God’s will. Now many brothers are using the expressions “true religion” and “false religion” to make a distinction. Is this advisable?— D. D., California.

    The brothers are correct in using the qualifying adjectives “true” and “false” respecting religion, so as not to be misunderstood, especially by those outside the organization. In the past we have had to do so much needless explanation and extricating of ourselves from embarrassing positions by not being specific on this. footnotes of the New World Translation show the early use by Latin-speaking Christians of the term religio as the equivalent of the Greek term thres·kei′a. It simply means “form of worship”, of which there can be a true and a false kind. Study over the footnotes in the New World Translation on the texts at Acts 26:5, Colossians 2:18 and James 1:26, 27, and see how the footnote renderings allow for the use of the term “religion” or “religious”, though the texts themselves use the expressions “form of worship” or “formal worshiper”. Hence it is well to make clear our use of the term “religion” by qualifying it as “true” or “false”, if the context or setting does not do this sufficiently.

    God’s true name has not been kept before humans only a form crafted by a member of an apostate religion.

    22 In the next article, we will trace the

    development of certain false doctrines.

    We will find that these crumble when

    tested in the light of the Scriptures.

    Moreover, we will see how the incomparable

    Preserver of truth, Jehovah, has

    blessed us with true teachings that we

    cherish as part of our spiritual heritage.


    Remember that the WTS will only use information that supports its view and discourage independent research in other sources. Not exactly how true historians approach things.

    OUR spiritual heritage = only jws



    Will the WTS be truly professional in examining their history?

    Love, Blondie

  • DesirousOfChange

    Though religious error abounds worldwide,

    Yep, that's right! NO ERROR in the WT Orginazation.

    Uh...........1914; 1925; 1975; end of the 20th Century;

    Guess there's a problem there after all..............


  • wannabefree

    ... and Jesus, the only name given for which men can be saved, is given a cursory mention in paragraphs 18 and 19.

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    "Note that the WTS allows themselves to use a snippet from another translation.

    He may have preserved the bible, but has he. How many original manuscripts exist today? How accurate are they. But, God was not able to preserve his real name."

    Many Christian Preachers will use different translations to bring out a scripture they feel brings out their material in a different an refreshing way. The Watchtower Society was a Bible publishing agency before they translated the NWT. Did you ever order a KJV or ASV, Wilson's Diagalott from the literature counter? Are they being hypocritical by using "a snippet" from Byington's translation? I don't follow you on this one, could you explain why that bothered you? I know KJV hard-core advocates who have a "NewLivingTranslation" and the old NIV Bibles and they will use "snippets" during their Sunday talk, I don't think that makes these preachers hypocrites but that's just me.

    "Bibles distributed by the Bible Students from the start of the movement.

    1896 Rotherham's New Testament 12th Edition Revised.

    1901 Holman Linear Bible with Watchtower Study Helps, 400 pages.

    1902 Berean Bible-The Emphatic Diaglott Benjamin Wilson.

    1907 Bible Students' Edition King James Version Bible with Watchtower Study Helps.

    1916 Berean Bible - The Emphatic Diaglott Benjamin Wilson, 928 pages.

    1926 Berean Bible - The Emphatic Diaglott Benjamin Wilson, 928 pages reprint.

    1942 King James Version Bible.

    1942 The Emphatic Diaglott, 928 pages.

    1944 American Standard Edition Bible 1408 pages.

    1944 American Standard Edition Bible 1408 pages. Reprint, smaller book and page margins [bi11-E].

    1950 New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, with symbol card, 800 pages.

    1951 New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, 800 pages, Revised.

    1953 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 1, 864 pages.

    1955 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 2, 720 pages.

    1957 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 3, 512 pages.

    1958 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 4, 416 pages.

    1958 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 1, 864 pages Yankee Stadium Stamp.

    1960 New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures Volume 5, 480 pages.

    1961 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures Revised edition [bi12-E].

    1963 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 3648 pages. All-in-one (Fat Boy).

    1969 The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures 1184 pages.

    1970 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1470 pages, revised [bi12-E].

    1971 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1374 pages revised large-print edition [bi8-E].

    1972 The Bible in Living English 1598 pages. [by-E].

    1978 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1374 pages. reprint large-print edition.

    1981 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1374 pages. reprint large-print edition.

    1981 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1470 pages. revised edition [bi12-81].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1600 pages Bible with references [Rbi8-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1280 pages pocket Edition [DLbi25-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1662 pages, revised Black hardbound [bi12-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1662 pages, revised black leather [bi12-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1662 pages, revised maroon leather [bi12-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1662 pages, revised black leatherette. [bi12-E].

    1984 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures 1662 pages, revised maroon leatherette. [bi12-E].

    1985 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures v-1 Large-print edition, revised [bi8-E].

    1985 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures v-2 Large-print edition, revised [bi8-E].

    1985 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures v-3 Large-print edition, revised [bi8-E].

    1985 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures v-4 Large-print edition, revised [bi8-E].

    1985 The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures 1182 pages revised [int-E]."

    "He may have preserved the bible, but has he. How many original manuscripts exist today? How accurate are they. But, God was not able to preserve his real name." Blondie

    I was trying to gauge if you were part of Dr. Bart D. Erhman's group who are challenging the textual critics and scribes by saying the last four hundred years of their study, was faulty or erroneous by hiding serious omissions or facts that would change the entire context of the Christian Greek Message. I did my time reading these books, I am no Leolia or Greg Stafford but I am willing to look at evidence over emotion and I found Dr. Bart D. Erhman substance was not what his books originally said they were. When the publisher changed the name of his book "Lost In Transmission" to a more interesting and secular "Misqouting Jesus" it was done to sell books. I enjoy listening to him on the radio, I saw him on Colbert three times and he seems like a nice guy. He will go on CoastToCoast Am radio and sit down with Ian Punnet (talk host, Masters In Divinity for the Episcopal Church) for three hours and the time flys by.

    "Ehrman injects his own viewpoint by his selection of material. For example, in discussing the role that Bengel played in the history of textual criticism (109-112), Ehrman gives this pious German conservative high praise as a scholar: he was an "extremely careful interpreter of the biblical text" (109); "Bengel studied everything intensely" (111). Ehrman speaks about Bengel's breakthroughs in textual criticism (111-12), but does not mention that he was the first important scholar to articulate the doctrine of the orthodoxy of the variants. This is a curious omission because, on the one hand, Ehrman is well aware of this fact, for in the fourth edition of The Text of the New Testament, now by Bruce Metzger and Bart Ehrman".

    Page 286 of "Reinventing Jesus: How Contemporary Skeptics Miss the Real Jesus and Mislead" By J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer, Daniel B. Wallace GoogleBooks has this page and book to read.

    Dr. Daniel B. Wallace, Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer add this additional insight in their book

    "What is also curiously left out was Tischendorf's motivation for his indefatigable work of discovering manuscripts and of publishing a critical edition of the Greek text with a full apparatus. Tischendorf is widely acknowledged as the most industrious NT textual critic of all time. And what motivated him was a desire to recover the earliest form of the text-a text which he believed would vindicate orthodox Christianity against the Hegelian skepticism of F. C. Baur and his followers. None of this is mentioned in Misquoting Jesus.

    Besides the selectivity regarding scholars and their opinions, these four chapters involve two curious omissions. First, there is next to no discussion about the various manuscripts. It's almost as if external evidence is a nonstarter for Ehrman. Further, as much as he enlightens his lay readers about the discipline, the fact that he doesn't give them the details about which manuscripts are more trustworthy, older, etc., allows him to control the information flow. Repeatedly, I was frustrated in my perusal of the book because it spoke of various readings without giving much, if any, of the data that supported them. Even in his third chapter-"Texts of the New Testament: Editions, Manuscripts, and Differences"-there is minimal discussion of the manuscripts, and none of individual codices. In the two pages that deal specifically with the manuscripts, Ehrman speaks only about their number, nature, and variants"

    This is the last comment I am going to post because I on Textual Variance because I know you know how things are not what they appear to be. When Dr. Metzger was close to his last day's on earth, he was interviewed and asked if he was as stumbled as Dr. Bart Erhman with all the textual variants and did he worry the Bible was not faithfully transmitted to us as Jesus Christ and God the Father wanted it. His comment was that he was now close to 100 years old and his faith in the Bible even with all the textual variations was awesome, he felt we had exactly what God wanted us to have. Back to your question about God not giving us a accurate Bible Blondie.

    "Second, Ehrman overplays the quality of the variants while underscoring their quantity. He says, "There are more variations among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament."13 Elsewhere he states that the number of variants is as high as 400,000.14 That is true enough, but by itself is misleading. Anyone who teaches NT textual criticism knows that this fact is only part of the picture and that, if left dangling in front of the reader without explanation, is a distorted view. Once it is revealed that the great majority of these variants are inconsequential-involving spelling differences that cannot even be translated, articles with proper nouns, word order changes, and the like-and that only a very small minority of the variants alter the meaning of the text, the whole picture begins to come into focus. Indeed, only about 1% of the textual variants are both meaningful and viable.15 The impression Ehrman sometimes gives throughout the book-and repeats in interviews16-is that of wholesale uncertainty about the original wording,17 a view that is far more radical than he actually embraces.18

    We can illustrate things this way. There are approximately 138,000 words in the Greek NT. The variants in the manuscripts, versions, and Fathers constitute almost three times this number. At first blush, that is a striking amount. But in light of the possibilities, it actually is rather trivial. For example, consider the ways in which Greek can say "Jesus loves Paul"

    1. ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ? Πα?λον

    2. ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ? τ?ν Πα?λον

    3. ? ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ? Πα?λον

    4. ? ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ? τ?ν Πα?λον

    5. Πα?λον ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ?

    6. τ?ν Πα?λον ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ?

    7. Πα?λον ? ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ?

    8. τ?ν Πα?λον ? ?Ιησο?ς ?γαπ?

    9. ?γαπ? ?Ιησο?ς Πα?λον

    10. ?γαπ? ?Ιησο?ς τ?ν Πα?λον

    11. ?γαπ? ? ?Ιησο?ς Πα?λον

    12. ?γαπ? ? ?Ιησο?ς τ?ν Πα?λον

    13. ?γαπ? Πα?λον ?Ιησο?ς

    14. ?γαπ? τ?ν Πα?λον ?Ιησο?ς

    15. ?γαπ? Πα?λον ? ?Ιησο?ς

    16. ?γαπ? τ?ν Πα?λον ? ?Ιησο?ς

    These variations only represent a small fraction of the possibilities. If the sentence used φιλε? instead of ?γαπ?, for example, or if it began with a conjunction such as δεv, καιv, or μ?ν, the potential variations would grow exponentially. Factor in synonyms (such as κ?ριοςfor ?Ιησο?ς), spelling differences, and additional words (such as Χριστ?ς, or ?γιος with Πα?λος) and the list of potential variants that do not affect the essence of the statement increases to the hundreds. If such a simple sentence as "Jesus loves Paul" could have so many insignificant variations, a mere 400,000 variants among the NT manuscripts seems like an almost negligible amount.19"

    3. YHWH and YHVH and God's name, I wrote enough for tonight because I wanted the lurkers to realize we are not all "yes men" or "yes women" and we all enjoy a discussion of the Bible. I enjoy reading books from both sides of the aisle, I understand Dr Bart writes for the younger audience and provides a sense of freedom if they can disprove the Bible. The amount of textual scholars that are stumbled by all the variations are not as large as we are told. The examples of a textual variance above should provide any thinking person with a idea that not all varations are earth-shattering changes to core doctrine.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Interesting how Jehovah's "forward-looking people" who used to diss "nostalgia" as a reflection of wordly peoples' sentimentality, "looking backward because of their hopelessness for the future," are now beginning to succumb to it themselves.

  • WTWizard

    Since when was joke-hova loving to provide the LIE-ble? All that thing does is guilts us into giving up everything that could actually help develop your soul. The purpose of this is so joke-hova can watch you suffer and be miserable as its filthy angels can suck your soul dry. In the meantime, you are enslaved. Even within the LIE-ble, who was it that had to make a death threat in order to get compliance and even that wasn't enough? And who put mankind ahead of even joke-hova? Wasn't it Satan that showed us the way to true freedom? Wasn't it joke-hova that wants us enslaved and uses its jesus to distract us right back into it?

    As usual, they discuss beings such as Abraham and his lineage. Does one have to be in that line in order to experience joke-hova's blessings? If one reads the LIE-ble, you would come to that conclusion--unless you are in that lineage or important for its continuance, joke-hova doesn't give a fxxx about you. Job might seem the exception, but I believe that was made up or that joke-hova did that solely to have a trumped up experience of an exceptional situation and expect you to believe you will be taken care of. In the meantime, you continue enduring abuse while working ceasely for your soul to become angel food.

    I don't know about any of those witlesses, but I would certainly rather meet Satan and His Demons than be sucked dry by those filthy grays and angels.

  • Ding

    It was so important that Pastor Russell ignored it and Rutherford didn't come up with the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" until, what, 1931?

  • frankiespeakin

    This Watchtower study is a marvelous flight of fantasy about the almighty Jehovah protecting his misspelled and mispronounced name, and an instruction book on his worship which the Watchtower feels is 100% truth based on a delusion that they have been appointed by him to tell the world what to do to escape his volitle destructive wrath.

    Quite a sick delusion that provides comfort for fellow delusionaries.

  • blondie

    Ding, Rutherford had to distance himself from Russell and the Bible Students. JF was taking the reins away from the BS elected elders. Remember too that in 1925 the number of partakers had dropped from around 90,000 to 25,000.

  • therevealer

    How privileged we are to use the name Jehovah and serve
    as his Witnesses! In effect, we cry out:
    "In the name of our God we shall lift our banners."-Ps. 20:5.

    I always get a kick out of these type of comments in the tower. First they are so privileged to use the name Jehovah and then

    they qoute the scripture which ignores stating the name.

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