Finkelstein on Finkelstein....
Does anyone think there was a great deliverance of the Hebrews from Egyptian captivity?
by humbled 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Larsinger58
MP:
Lars: how do you explain nearly 40 years at Barnea Kadesh and theres nothing from Moses and his 3 million ?
Everybody knows where they were for the majority of the forty years but they cant find anything. Supposedly all the original exodus passengers died there and theres no mass graves ? What gives ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadesh_Barnea
Oh yeah. When you prove something from archaeology or pagan history that agrees with the Bible, they always bring up evidence from the 40-year trek in the wilderness.
I don't really have an answer except for the fact that this was quite unusual, circumstantially. Their shoes and clothes didn't wear out. Everything they had they made to last, like pottery, etc. Plus, they were a CLEAN people. Plus we know they had ash heaps, so they burned their waste. Plus there is the issue as to whether they cleaned up the camp after they left to avoid being followed to hide their numbers, etc.
Plus, I supposed they buried people in the ground, but we also know they buried persons in caves!
But even if they did bury the dead discretely outside the camp, would there be evidence of those graves today? What type of climate was there? Was it hot?
The fact is, a zillion people could cross the Gobi desert sands and they would not leave a trace they had trkked through there, no more than I would leave evidence walking across a cement highway. The travel of whales cannot be traced in the water! So only certain things leave evidence. That's why I have little respect for some archaeologists. They base their theories on what was left, maybe a few homes. But most of the Israelites lived in TENTS! Maybe some of them lived in stone homes. If they were wooden homes, then they would not exist today.
So your question is legitimate. I don't know any answer specfically other than maybe they didn't intend to leave any evidence of themselves during that time. There might be a logical explanation based on specifics. But I do know this. Most records of other nations appear in their war journals. So funny to me, many doubt the Bible unless they have some corroboration in some foreign records. Well when the Israelites started to itneracting with non-Israelites who actually wrote and kept records, then we find lots and lots of evidence of that from the time of the Tel-Dan stele forward! Lots of records in Assyria and Babylon, and even Persia if you look at the bas-reliefs! So I'm wondering why doubt their own records in the context of them just appearing out of thin air in later times? Not having direct evidence doesn't mean these people didn't exist! It just means that tents don't fossilize easily.
But the things we can confirm, are amazing, like the Exodus in 1386 BCE and Akhenaten's conversion to monotheism due to the 10 plagues! We have that! Nobody leaves footprints in sand or stone though, so... I can't confirm the 40-year trek in the wilderness, but I can confirm the 10 plagues! I'm satisfied with that. That's the best I can do. You focus on the negative, I focus on the positive -- same old dance.
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James Brown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXf2IDS-9g0
Some people say there are chariot wheels in the Red Sea.
Google youtube Ron Wyatt, he discovered a number of bible artifacts.
You have to decide what you want to believe and decide what you want to see.
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Finkelstein
In that video I posted, if you slip forward over toward the end, starting around 40:00 it goes into explaining the importance to the Israelites in unifying
its unique civilization under one monotheist god YHWH. A more recognized powerful god than all others separate distinguished civilizations in the
region of that time.
So from this information there is good evidence to support that the Israelite nation originated from the Canaanite civilization, from a partial
inhabitation in the Egyptian ruled region, to eventually establish its own unique civilization and became a monotheist nation of its own assuming identity.
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Mary
There doesn't seem to be any direct evidence outside of the bible, that a million Israelites had been enslaved in Egypt for 400 years and then were able to leave, cross the Sea of Reeds and then wander around for 40 years without leaving any physical evidence. However, like many ancient stories (like Noah's Flood), it probably has a bit of truth in it and is based on some event that really did happen.
If you read the history of the Hyksos, I would venture a guess that the story of the Isrealites fleeing Egypt could have been loosely based on them, although the biblical version has been greatly enhanced. This is only an opinion though, and not written in stone.
For anyone interested in the Hyksos, there is plenty of information out there: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0009_0_09361.html
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Finkelstein
This video goes further into explaining the Exodus, as well other occurrences of that time.
It also mentions the Hyksos inhabitation within Egypt.
An interesting part of it is at the 36 min. segment when it goes into explaining the great 10 plagues set upon Egypt for not releasing the Israelites.
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mP
Lars:
There is another confirmation that, indeed, Israelites, that is, Asiatics making bricks, were employed in Egypt.
MP:
I got news for you, the pyramids are not made of bricks, they are made of stone blocks many tonnes in weight.
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mP
Cadelin:
Moreover, such a large crowd roaming the area identified in scripture would leave ample evidence of their presence.
MP:
The jews didnt roam the sinai penisula, they spent most of their time in Barnea Kadesh which is an oasis albeit not a very large on. Read the wiki article it gives the scriptres. Thats what makes the story more damning, everybody knows where the look but theres nothing to be found.
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mP
Lars:
I don't really have an answer except for the fact that this was quite unusual, circumstantially. Their shoes and clothes didn't wear out. Everything they had they made to last, like pottery, etc. Plus, they were a CLEAN people. Plus we know they had ash heaps, so they burned their waste. Plus there is the issue as to whether they cleaned up the camp after they left to avoid being followed to hide their numbers, etc.
MP:
Still the bible tells us as punishment the generatin of the golden calf had to die out before moving along to the promised land. Given they spent of the 40 years(something like 39+) in Barnea Kadesh where are the bodies of the ones who died ? Thats 3 million bodies, did they eat them ? THey certainly couldnt burn them theres no wood in the desert.
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mP
Finkelstein:
In that video I posted, if you slip forward over toward the end, starting around 40:00 it goes into explaining the importance to the Israelites in unifying
its unique civilization under one monotheist god YHWH. A more recognized powerful god than all others separate distinguished civilizations in the
region of that time.
mP:
We would call this a corporate monopoly. The only constant is the priests want free food(sacrifices), gold( for the temple of course). They hated the pagans because they were stealing business. The fact tht they copied the architecture , religious ceremonies, writings and more from locals shows they were not original. They were original in that they got greedy and wasted it all.