by dissonance_resolved 59 Replies latest jw experiences
Welcome, great advice so far so I'll just second the above!
jgnat recommended Hassan's books. In particular, the second one, Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves, is very useful. Also it deals with JWs specifically (in addition to many other cults and codependent relationships).
00DAD
Like Billy said, do not rush this.
Not to long ago I came to the similar conclusion as you that this was not working for me. I was the school overseer / born-in / 3rd generation. THe first week I bombarded her with info and she almost lost it... she cried / got scared / etc...
The few days following were awful and uncomfortable. After a week of not talking about it - she started to out of nowhere discuss her issues and what she thought was wrong. 3 months later she always discusses issues she doesn't like - she is breaking free of the mind control and just last night she decided that she still wants to go a little while longer for the kids UNTIL THEY MAKE MORE FRIENDS AT SCHOOL AND ELSEWHERE.
Then she wants to reconsider just leaving things alone. So I would suggest just take it slow, afterall you have no right to force an exit on him.
Hey there! First off, try to relax. I know it's mind numbing and horrible. I'm there right now too. I'm born in, MS, ex pioneer, third generation JW. I woke up first and it was terrifying in a way not knowing how to talk to my wife. Steve Hassan books as recommended are good. The main thrust of the book is using love and reassurance without dumping tons of info on your loved one. It's all about getting their real mind thinking and not the cult mind. Cult minds say - wait on Jehovah. What are his hot buttons? Ask him opinion questions then agree with him regardless of his answer to reinforce his right to think critically. I took it very slow with my wife and when we finally did into a deep talk surprisingly she had some doubts of her own different than mine but there non the less. We are both in agreement on how to raise our child and both fading now.
You can do this. It will be okay. Most important thing is slow down and relax. The cult teaches you to live like your dying tomorrow. You are not! You have all the time in the world. Go slow.
I like the point comatose brought out about, "What are his hot buttons?" .
With my wife I discussed things like "yelling when a rapist has a gun to your head or IVF fiasco or not helping charities etc...
Doctrinal matters mean nothing to her... but day to day life issues bother her greatly like most women(that may be a bad generalization... sorry in advance).
Yes, I used the the side bar in the recent magazine on IVF being gross misuse of sexual organs and pornea. Wife said, what the hell? Let me read that. Then said, that is not pornea. Just get him thinking. But, even if his answer isn't one you agree with, don't argue or disagree. The goal is to get him thinking logically with his own mind.
Go slow, relax, breathe, and go for long walks. I started yoga. It's been a lifesaver.
Yes, thank you all for the reminder to slow down! Billy, I like the idea of starting with the blood issue- it's not so confrontational since its just a "what if.". It really shocked me to find out that if you allow all the fractions that are now considered a "conscience matter" that basically equals whole blood when combined. Do they think we are stupid? I guess I was until I read something on the subject that wasn't published by the WTBTS. Thankfully, we've never been organized enough to get our medical directives filled out. I don't think I've carried anything since they used to hand out the new blood cards every January. Now that I think of it, it seems strange they stopped dong that.
I have high hopes for you two! Since hubby is ho-hum, be encouraging if he skips a meeting here and there. I tell hubby that Jehovah understands and still loves him. Even though he isn't supposed to take my opinion in to account, it does help.
Welcome dissonance!
I'm dating a baptized born-in. I came at him with 'questions' from all angles for a darn YEAR. Fortunately, I have the freedom to play stupid and I don't have access to the materials as JWs do so I could take full advantage of my ignorance to what I thought, was no avail. I'm now learning things seeped in.
Interestingly enough, in all that I threw at him, the darn eyelid opener was the evolution of the vaccination doctrine! He had been on me about getting my flu shot and I replied, "Okay. The fact that you're up on that doctrine's new light means a lot to me. Btw, what are your thoughts on how the WTS equated that with cannibalism? Can you imagine how it would have felt as an elder to have counseled a family who lost a loved on only to have the doctrine change later? It would have killed me had that happened to us." He was completely floored with that revelation.
I then provided him with this... http://jehovahswitnessrevealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/vaccine.PDF . *
I've learned something else. Part of his new angst is the fact that people on the outside of the organization have more information than he has access to and he's starting to realize the disadvantage he has. This poor man was reading that whitewashed history book and I suspect the whitewashing became evident so he put it down.
*As an fyi, I use JW facts and other sites to get my understanding down pat but to introduce concepts I use documents from http://jehovahswitnessrevealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/ and ask him to explain the quotes or the evolution thereof. It's worked wonders. After vaccination, I moved on to the evolution of the organ transplant doctrine. Once he sees and accepts the evolution of the former, he'll more easily swallow the possibility of the blood doctrine moving in that direction (which it already has).
Start to develop a social circle outside of the organization. Have people over who are not witnesses- neighbors, work associates, relatives etc. You have to have a social safety net before you can feel comfortable leaving.
I agree with what everyone else has said- go slow. Read up on the paranoia, loaded language, and social pressure that keeps a person in the cult. Being an irregular meeting attender helps- it gives a person a few extra days to not be drilled with JW doctrine.
Good luck to you.
I was once where you are. We're both out now. Take it slow and I second the recommendation to read Steve Hassan's books. It's like walking through a minefield, you need to learn how to navigate the hidden defense mechanisms in the JW mind before you attempt to reach him. You don't want to blow your marriage up.
