Porneia in marriage - a changing view:

by Splash 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Splash
    Splash

    Porneia in marriage - a changing view:

    1956 - Cannot divorce a partner for their homosexuality or bestiality, or you risk being disfellowshipped

    1972 - Cannot divorce a partner for their homosexuality or bestiality, or you risk being disfellowshipped

    1972 - Can divorce a partner for homosexuality (but not bestiality)

    1974 - Can be disfellowshipped for performing oral/anal intercourse with your marriage mate

    1974 - Can divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse

    1974 - Cannot divorce your marriage mate if you both consented to oral/anal intercourse

    1978 - Cannot be disfellowshipped for performing oral/anal intercourse with your marriage mate

    1978 - Can still divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse

    1983 - Can now divorce a partner for their bestiality

    1983 - Cannot divorce your marriage mate if they insist on oral / anal intercourse

    1983 - It's not for elders to 'police' the private marital matters of couples!

    Questions:

    1. How would you feel if you were disfellowshipped for divorcing a mate, only for the teaching to later change so that you would no longer be disfellowshipped?

    2. Prior to 1978, how many were df'd for wanting certain types of intercourse with their marriage mate, only for it to later be redefined as a non-df'ing offense?

    3. Prior to 1983, how many divorced their mates and remarried basis this teaching, only to later discover that Jehovah actually does not allow this, and future divorces for this reason will now get you df'd?

    Confused?

    Splash

  • designs
    designs

    1974- The JWs in France almost walked out in-mass

    69

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Do you have the actual sourses for all those changes? Just curious.

    The GB putting their nose where it doesn't belong ( pun intended ), has caused untold damages to the relationship of marriage mates. The sexual relationship between spouses is private, and should be a guilt free experience. It should aslo be built around mutuall respect and trust. So basically, married people should figure it out themselves. Paul said that all things are lawful, but perhaps not advantageous. So I would think that neither spouse would insist on anything that made the other feel disrespected.

    Still, it is a private matter. I believe this subject should NOT be discussed from the platform at public meetings with children present. I remember sitting through a convention in my early teens, listening to Samuel Herd go on and on about oral and anal sex. Now I realize what a powerful influence his words must have had on all the starry-eyed dubs. One of the governing popes is giving advice about sex.

    I can tell you from personal experience that having a relationship where one or both partners is in a constant state of guilt is heart-breaking. Being loved is a basic need, and sex is a natural expression of love. There is no lonelier feeling than laying right next to another human year after year, knowing that what you need will never be given to you, and that you must endure it forever.

  • pixel
    pixel

    Thanks for this collection of new lights!

  • mP
    mP

    Its funny how JW completely twist the meaning of yet another word to mean things that are completely incompatible with its true meaning in ancient Greek.

  • Splash
    Splash

    Hi Data-dog, Have fun sorting through these:

    DIVORCE ALLOWED FOR HOMOSEXUALITY/BESTIALITY?

    1956 - No : WT56 10/1 p.591 par.20

    "Sodomy (the unnatural intercourse of one male with another male as with a female), lesbianism (the homosexual relations between women), and bestiality (the unnatural sexual relations by man or woman with an animal) are not Scriptural grounds for divorce. "

    1972 - No : WT72 1/1 p.32

    "While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate."

    1972 - YES : w72 12/15 p. 767 Questions From Readers

    "Does this mean that unnatural and perverted sexual relations such as those engaged in by homosexuals are included in the meaning of this term used by the apostle in recording Jesus’ words? Yes, that is the case... This clearly marks a correction in the view expressed on previous occasions in the columns of this magazine."

    1983 - YES : WT83 3/15 p.30

    So, then, “fornication” in the broad sense, and as used at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9, evidently refers to a broad range of unlawful or illicit sex relations outside marriage. Porneia involves the grossly immoral use of the genital organ(s) of at least one human (whether in a natural or a perverted way); also, there must have been another party to the immorality—a human of either sex, or a beast."

    DIVORCE ALLOWED FOR PORNEIA BETWEEN MARRIAGE MATES?

    YES - w74 11/15 p. 704 Questions From Readers

    That por·nei′a can rightly be considered as including perversions within the marriage arrangement is seen in that the man who forces his wife to have unnatural sex relations with him in effect “prostitutes” or “debauches” her. This makes him guilty of por·nei′a, for the related Greek verb por·neu′o means “to prostitute, debauch.” Hence, circumstances could arise that would make lewd practices of a married person toward that one’s marriage mate a Scriptural basis for divorce.

    YES - Both can be disfellowshipped - w74 11/15 p. 704 Questions From Readers

    If, on the other hand, the lewd practices were engaged in by mutual consent, neither mate would have a basis for claiming por·nei′a as a Scriptural ground for divorce. Both marriage partners are guilty. Such a case, if brought to the attention of elders in the congregation, would be handled like any other serious wrongdoing.

    YES - But no longer a disfellowshipping offense - w78 2/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers

    In the past some comments have appeared in this magazine in connection with certain unusual sex practices, such as oral sex, within marriage and these were equated with gross sexual immorality. On this basis the conclusion was reached that those engaging in such sex practices were subject to disfellowshipping if unrepentant... A careful further weighing of this matter, however, convinces us that, in view of the absence of clear Scriptural instruction, these are matters for which the married couple themselves must bear the responsibility before God and that these marital intimacies do not come within the province of the congregational elders to attempt to control nor to take disfellowshipping action with such matters as the sole basis.

    YES - w78 2/15 pp. 31-32 Questions From Readers

    If a married person believes that the sexual practices of the mate, though not involving someone outside the marriage, are nevertheless of such a gross nature as to constitute a clear surrender to lewdness or a debauching in lewdness, then that must be his or her own decision and responsibility.

    Such a one may hold that the circumstances provide Scriptural basis for divorce.

    NO - w83 3/15 p. 31 Honor Godly Marriage!

    What, though, if one mate wants or even demands to share with his or her partner in what is clearly a perverted sex practice? The above-presented facts show that porneia involves unlawful sexual conduct outside the marital arrangement. Thus, a mate’s enforcing perverted acts, such as oral or anal sex, within the marriage would not constitute a Scriptural basis for a divorce that would free either for remarriage

    No-one else's business! - w83 3/15 p. 31 Honor Godly Marriage!

    As already stated, it is not for elders to “police” the private marital matters of couples in the congregation.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    As Ray Franz observed their legalism is "a denial of Christian faith" (apostasy) and leads to a "morass of inconsistencies".


    (Why does the "true religion" secretly blind its followers to the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?)
  • The Song Remains The Same
    The Song Remains The Same

    IMO the changes, or more importantly the close-down of certain activities, could reflect practices that were carried out by those who had the power to set the rules and therefore did not want to fall foul of them...

    I found Chapter 3 in CoC about this very interesting in terms of the mess they got themselves into, and with specific ref. to pg.54 of my copy where RF describes the case of a woman who's husband had @n@l s3x with another woman and the GB determined the wife had no grounds for scriptural divorce... quite bizarre

  • 88JM
    88JM

    Marking

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T

    and what really is the scriptural basis for all this?...

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