The 144,000 must all be selected FIRST!

by Yadirf 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • Satanus
    Have you NEVER read my signature scripture?

    If it's so important, why don't you quote it? I can't be bothered to look up references that biblists are too lazy to show.


  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Yardirf, contact Brooklyn immediately and share your insight with them so they can send you your official APOSTATE membership card:

    I personally don't think that any women were ever chosen. Only males will be priests and kings with Jesus, even as the priests of Israel were always men.

    Using your line of reasoning, they should all be JEWS too.

    Tell me what Galatians chapter 3 means when it says:

    26. You are all, in fact, Sons of God through YOUR failth in Christ Jesus.

    27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    28. There is neither JEW nor GREEK, there is neither SLAVE nor FREEMAN, there is neither MALE or FEMALE, for you are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus.

    Yardift has accomplished a miracle! He has caused an atheist - me - to drag out his special edition of the NWT and look up a scripture. Given a choice between your theology and Shelby's , if I had to choose, I'd pick Shelby's any day.

    May you have peace!

  • logical
    Because they must meet the strict requirement of being truly “holy”. Such people are quite rare. The only ones that can wear that title are those who are so very dedicated to God’s cause that they won’t even need the help of Christ’s kingdom to become holy. They will have achieved that standing during their life now. They, by reason of their holiness, will have already qualified for LIFE during their present lifetime.

    So in effect, they will not need the ransom of Christ? Only the sinners, the unholy need Christ's ransom. The righteous have no need to be saved.

    Is there truly a person anywhere who fits? Has there ever been? Not even Moses, David, or even Abraham fit that. They STILL recognised their need for Christ's ransom, they were considered righteous, but they all knew they were not without sin.

    The fact is ALL need the help of the kingdom, ALL need to drink of its water to have life. One cannot have life without drinking, one cannot have life outside the kingdom.

  • DakotaRed
    Have you NEVER read my signature scripture?

    And what does that have to do with my question as to how can you claim the number of the 144,000 has not yet been sealed, yet the Watchtower teaches it has been sealed since the early thirties?

    *** w88 1/1 11 The Last Days-A Time of Harvest ***
    8 However, they are not alone. John, in another vision, sees the sealing of the final ones of the 144,000. (Revelation 7:1-8) Evidently, the gathering of these was virtually complete by 1935.

    *** re 125 20 A Multitudinous Great Crowd ***
    Apparently, the full number of the 144,000 had yet to be filled. But increasing numbers of those who heeded the message and who showed zeal in the witness work came to profess an interest in living forever on the Paradise earth. They had no desire to go to heaven. That was not their calling. They were no part of the little flock but rather of the other sheep. (Luke 12:32; John 10:16) Their being identified in 1935 as the great crowd of other sheep was an indication that the choosing of the 144,000 was then about complete.

    *** ws 49 6 On the Watch During "the Conclusion of the System of Things" ***
    6 In the mid-1930’s, something significant took place. What occurred suggested that the membership of the spiritual bride of Christ had been filled, that there were on earth enough spirit-begotten disciples of the Bridegroom to make up the full number of his heavenly bride.

    Are you announcing an apostate type of break with Watchtower teachings?

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • AGuest

    Dear Friday, forgive me but... you are in error (peace to you!)

    The 144,000 and great crowd are picked simultaneously:

    The 144,000 come specifically from 'among the sons of Israel', 12,000 from each tribe of Abraham's seed through Isaac, by means of Jacob (Israel). These... are 'the holy ones'.

    However, if you look at the greetings to most of Paul letters, you will see that they were addressed to 'the holy ones... AND... faithful brother IN UNION WITH CHRIST.'

    Why the difference? Because although the 12 were apostles to ALL of Israel, the Jews AND the Samaritans ("you will be witnesses of me in all Judea and Samaria), Paul... was a apostle 'to the NATIONS'.

    A VERY good record of this is the words recorded at Romans 11:25, where Paul explained a 'sacred secret':

    "For I do not want you to be ignorant, BROTHERS...
    of THIS 'sacred secret'...

    Who was being addressed here? The Jews? Nope. They were addressed initially, but Paul had turned his attention... to the nations... because those of the NATIONS being called, were starting to 'lord it over' the called Jews a little bit (and this is understandable, because the Jews has really put themselves above others for some time...):

    Romans 11:13

    Anyway, verse 25 goes on:

    "in order for you not to be discreet
    in your OWN eyes: that... a DULLING of
    the SENSIBILITIES has happened in part
    TO ISRAEL... [i]until... THE FULL NUMBER

    What is going on? Well, ALL Israel will be saved, dear one, but only 144,000 of us are bought 'as FIRSTfruits' to God. But the calling and choosing of such firstfruits coincides with the calling and choosing of the nations... because BOTH groups 'render sacred service' in the temple, BOTH groups make up 'a nation of kings and priests bought from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people...'

    and yet, it is the SEALING of 144,000 in 'their foreheads', so that the promise to Abraham is FULFILLED, that brings such calling and choosing... to an end.

    Revelation 7:1-15
    Revelation 14:1
    Matthew 24:29-31
    Matthew 25:31-33

    I can understand where you might think it necessary to choose the 144,000 FIRST, as they are mentioned FIRST; however, the opportunity for Israel to fill the places prepared for them will not cease until the last one has been 'sealed' in his/her forehead. Yet, the nations have been being called... and chosen... since Paul was 'commissioned' to call them.

    Oh, and BTW... my Lord does NOT rule for only 1,000 years! HIS... is 'an INDEFINITELY LASTING' kingdom, one where he rules 'forever and ever'. It is WE, those who rule WITH him, who are limited to 1,000 years. We get to SHARE his rulership for a thousand years and that is the ONLY part of his ruling that has a set limitation.

    Once he COMPLETELY inherits the kingdom, that is, AFTER the general resurrection in which GOD judges the 'righteous AND the unrighteous', INCLUDING Adam, Eve and Judas, and the 'last enemy' DEATH... is 'brought to nothing'... the kingdom is turned BACK to my Lord... and he rules... forever. The ONLY thing that is not 'subject' to him, then, is God Himself.

    And this is AFTER our '1,000-year rule'... has ENDED.

    Revelation 20:7, 11, 12
    Daniel 7:9-14
    1 Corinthians 15:24-28
    Revelation 20:14

    A slave of Christ,


  • singsongboi

    oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!

  • BluesBrother


    Stop making it up as you go along... Anyone can fantasize.

    I personally don't think that any women were ever chosen. Only males will be priests and kings with Jesus, even as the priests of Israel were always men.

    Come on ! you are contradicting the basic teaching of the WTBTS , whom I suppose you believe to be the faithful and discreet slave, and you discount the named women in the Greek scriptures , some of whom showed "Gifts of the Holy Spirit", and all those sisters prior to 1935

    You are just not making sense.

  • plmkrzy

    What difference would it make what sex they are on earth anyway?
    They wouldn't be "Men" or "Women" in the spirit realm. They would be spirits.

    I look to the sea, reflections in the waves spark my memory
    Some happy,some sad
  • AGuest

    Dearest Blues... peace to you... and 'making up' what 'as [I] go'?

    A slave of Christ,


  • COMF

    Friday, man, next time you're in Dallas call me up. We'll go to Pappasito's and maybe to the Skatium for an afternoon of fun on wheels. You are in serious need of a break from too much meditation.


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