How did the JW come up with the idea that human has no soul or spirit??

by FingersCrossed 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie
    blondie

    Christadelphians believe that we are all created out of the dust of the earth and became living souls once we received the breath of life based on the Genesis 2 account of humanity's creation. Adam was said to have become a living soul. His body did not contain a soul, rather his body (made from dust) plus the breath of life together were called a soul, in other words a living being. They believe that we are mortal and when we die our breath leaves our body, and our bodies return to the soil. They believe that we are mortal until the resurrection from the dead when Christ returns to this earth and grants immortality to the faithful. In the meantime, the dead lie in the earth in the sleep of death until Jesus comes. [63]

    http://www.derbychristadelphians.org.uk/the_soul.htm

    Charles Taze Russell used an Interlinear (emphatic diaglott) with Christadelphian connections, Benjamin Wilson, a Chistadelphina breakaway group.

    http://www.widomaker.com/~cpatax/xadelfia/cgaf.htm

  • Ding
    Ding

    I think it originated from the denial of hell -- conscious punishment after death.

    If wicked people die but are not suffering conscious punishment, what happens to them?

    Non-existence seemed to be the only logical alternative, and it was possible by ignoring context to read that into the Bible (the WTS always quotes part of Ecclesiastes 9:5 without considering the next verse or even the entire context of the book of Ecclesiates itself (the thoughts of the despondent preacher, not of God.))

  • kurtbethel
    kurtbethel

    When you make up a doctrine without consideration of the whole context then you often create new problems.

    If your spirit is merely a life force like electricity, then when you die there is no part of you that survives death. You simply no longer exist. That is okay, as atheists and materialists that have no spiritual beliefs think this way. The problem comes when a copy is made of your body and those stored memories are implanted in that copy. Since you ceased your existence, it would not be you as there is nothing to carry the continuity of your being. It could be a perfect copy right down to the cellular level, complete with replicated synapses and memory, to the point that it thought it was you because of having your memories, but it would not be you.

    It would be just like making a backup of your PC and then running the PC through a grinder, then copying the data to a new PC. You can run all your stuff just like it was before, but it is not the same PC.

    This has other implications. Once you are on to the fact that you will be blotted out of existence forever, you might decide to live for this life. After all, it won't be you getting resurrected. If your duplicate in the next life gets punished for your misdeeds, or not resurrected, well too bad. It's not your problem.

    Also, the whole deal about Michael's life force going into Jesus, and then going back into Michael, what big deal is that? It carries no personality traits. It is like running your PC off the wall socket, and then switching to an inverter in your car.

    This doctrine is just plain goofy. It makes atheism look more sensible.

  • wolfman85
    wolfman85

    kurtbethel, I agree with you. After I saw the movie "The sixth day" I realized that the teaching of the resurrection according to WT is nothing but a clone of one and not oneself.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    I think the main issue is....

    Soul V immortal Soul?

    Spirit V immortal Spirit.

    As mortals we are body, soul and spirit....NO INHERINT IMMORTALITY ......

    ONLY in Christ are we Born Again by SPIRIT to a resurrection of immortality After a sanctified life through Christ's death and resurrection LIFE in us !!

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    ***Christadelphians believe that we are all created out of the dust of the earth and became living souls once we received the breath of life based on the Genesis 2 account of humanity's creation****

    Christadelphians and the WTBS and many other groups picked up on "soul sleep" and " conditional immortality" from the Adventist movement. Without inherent immortality you will not "burn forever" ...the choice we all face is Life or Death.... , ! John 3:6-16, John 10:10, I John 5:11-13

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    The Adventist family of churches is regarded today as conservative Protestants. [ 1 ] Although these churches [clarification needed] hold much in common, their theology differs on whether the intermediate state is unconscious sleep or consciousness, whether the ultimate punishment of the wicked is annihilation or eternal torment, the nature of immortality, whether or not the wicked are resurrected after the millennium, and whether the sanctuary of Daniel 8 refers to the one in heaven or one on earth. [ 1 ] The movement has encouraged the examination of the whole Bible, leading Seventh-day Adventists and some smaller Adventist groups to observe the Sabbath.

    Denominations

    The Handbook of Denominations in the United States, 12th edn., describes the following churches as "Adventist and Sabbatarian (Hebraic) Churches":

    [edit] Christadelphians
    Main article: Christadelphians

    The Christadelphians, were founded in 1844 and had an estimated 25,000 members in 170 ecclesias, or churches in 2000 in America.

    [edit] Advent Christian Church
    Main article: Advent Christian Church

    The Advent Christian Church was founded in 1860 and had 25,277 members in 302 churches in 2002 in America. It is a "first-day" body of Adventist Christians founded on the teachings of William Miller. It adopted the "conditional immortality" views of Charles F. Hudson and George Storrs formed the "Advent Christian Association" in Salem, Massachusetts in 1860.

    [edit] Primitive Advent Christian Church
    Main article: Primitive Advent Christian Church

    The Primitive Advent Christian Church is a small group which separated from the Advent Christian Church. It differs from the parent body mainly on two points. Its members observe foot washing as a rite of the church, and they teach that reclaimed backsliders should be baptized (even though they had formerly been baptized). This is sometimes referred to as rebaptism.

    [edit] Seventh-day Adventist
    Main article: Seventh-day Adventist Church

    The Seventh-day Adventist Church, founded in 1863, had 16,600,000 baptized members (not counting children of members) worldwide as of 2010 [ 4 ] is best known for its teaching that Saturday, the seventh day of the week, is the Sabbath and is the appropriate day for worship. However, it is the secong coming of Jesus Christ along with the Judgement day; based on the three angels message in Revelation 14: 6-13, the main doctrine of SDA.

    [edit] Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
    Main article: Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement

    The Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement is a small offshoot with an unknown number of members from the Seventh-day Adventist Church caused by disagreement over military service on the Sabbath day during World War I.

    [edit] Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association
    Main article: Shepherd's Rod

    The Davidians (originally named Shepherd's Rod) is a small offshoot with an unknown number of members made up primarily of voluntarily disfellowshipped members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They were originally known as the Shepherd's Rod and are still referred to as such. The group derives its name from two books on Bible doctrine written by its founder, Victor Houteff, in 1929.

    [edit] Branch Davidians

    The Branch Davidians were a split ("branch") from the Davidians. Many of them perished in the infamous Waco Siege of 1993.

    [edit] Church of God (Seventh Day)
    Main article: General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)

    The Church of God (Seventh-Day) was founded in 1863 and it had an estimated 11,000 members in 185 churches in 1999 in America. Its founding members separated in 1858 from those Adventists associated with Ellen G. White who later organized themselves as Seventh-day Adventists in 1863. The Church of God (Seventh Day) split in 1933, creating two bodies: one headquartered in Salem, West Virginia, and known as the Church of God (7th day) - Salem Conference and the other one headquartered in Denver, Colorado and known as the General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day). The Worldwide Church of God splintered from this. [ 5 ]

    [edit] Church of God and Saints of Christ
    Main article: Church of God and Saints of Christ

    The Church of God and Saints of Christ was founded in 1896 and had an estimated 40,000 members in approximately 200 congregations in 1999 in America.

    [edit] Church of God General Conference

    Many denominations known as "Church of God" have Adventist origins.

    Main article: Church of God General Conference

    The Church of God General Conference was founded in 1921 and had 7,634 members in 162 churches in 2004 in America. It is an Adventist Christian body which is also known as the Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith and the Church of God General Conference (Morrow, GA).

    [edit] United Seventh-Day Brethren
    Main article: United Seventh-Day Brethren

    The United Seventh-Day Brethren is a small Sabbatarian Adventist body. In 1947, several individuals and two independent congregations within the Church of God Adventist movement formed the United Seventh-Day Brethren, seeking to increase fellowship and to combine their efforts in evangelism, publications, and other ministries.

    [edit] Worldwide Church of God
    Main article: Worldwide Church of God

    The Worldwide Church of God was founded in 1933 and had an estimated 63,000 members worldwide in 2004.

    [edit] United Church of God

    Following massive doctrinal changes in the Worldwide Church of God, numerous groups split off to retain a more traditional system. TheUnited Church of God founded in 1995 is the largest such offshoot.

    [edit] Other minor Adventist groups
    [edit] Other relationships

    The Bible Students movement founded by Charles Taze Russell had in its early development close connections with the Millerite movement and stalwarts of the Adventist faith, including George Storrs and Joseph Seiss. The various groupings of Bible Students currently have a cumulative membership of less than 20,000 worldwide. Although the Jehovah's Witnesses (who emerged in 1931 following a schism in the Bible Students movement that began in 1917) and remaining Bible Students are not generally regarded as part of the Millerite Adventist movement, Russell attended and eventually led an Adventist oriented Bible study church from 1870–74. Avowing his indebtedness to Adventism, he "was deeply influenced by Adventist thoughts." [ 7 ] As of December 2008 there were approximately 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    Shouldn't the question be: How did anyone come up with the idea that humans have a soul or spirit?

    Since nothing is known beyond death that information is unknown.

  • BU2B
    BU2B

    Except for the "annointed" who get a instant ressurection to the heavens, the Bible speaks of only going to heaven for Christians, isnt that an immortal soul? Just not for the peons of the "great crowd (of) other sheep"

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Bu2b *** isnt that an immortal soul? ****

    There is not one scripture both in OT and NT that renders "soul" as "immortal soul" ....Christians are given a rebirth "spiritually". it is a seed of a New Creation, it's the very Life of the resurrected Christ, aka "Eternal life" and through that birth and growth, Christians can BECOME immortal.

    In our Adamic fleshly nature we are body, soul, and spirit....we need a completely New nature to overcome its flaws and it's transformation to an appropriate "resurrected Spiritual Body" suitable for an "eternal life" environment/existence. John 3:6, I John 5:11-12, 1 Corinthians 15:35-50. 2 Corinthian 3:7-18

    Shalom friend

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