The ransom sacrifice contradicts the "issue of universal sovereignty"

by yadda yadda 2 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Think about it. If Jesus is the exact representation of his heavenly father, and if "God is love", and if there is no greater love than to give up one's own life for others, then if Jesus gave up his life for mankind as the greatest act of love ever performed, why would Jehovah be more concerned about his own name being vindicated and his rule being proven to be superior to man's rule than preventing untold millions of innocent persons over thousands of years from suffering and dying horribly?

    Wouldn't Jehovah be just like his son, Jesus, and choose to sacrifice his own name and reputation out of his great love for mankind rather than permit so much suffering for thousands of years? Why would the almighty creator of the universe care so much about being 'slandered' by a rebellious spirit creature that he would have to permit so much suffering for so long? Is Jehovah's personal ego more important than his love for mankind?

    Ask this: what would Jesus have done if Satan challenged his right to rule the universe and humankind? Jesus gave the answer to that question through the ransom sacrifice. Jesus chose to put humanities needs ahead of his own life and personal will. Why wouldn't Jehovah have chosen to do the same when the rebellion occurred in the garden of Eden?

    NO ONE HAS LOVE GREATER THEN THIS

    No One Has Love Greater Then This
    By surrendering his life, Jesus proved himself a real friend to his followers. "No one has love greater than this," he said, "that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends." (John 15:13)

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    Jesus didn't surrender his life though.

    According to the Bible he existed before humans in heaven. After a few thousnd years after man had gone bad he came down here for a short while and then went back up again to where he is living now. He has his original life back.

    As some-one once said. He came down, had a pretty sh*t weekend but he is now back home with Daddy where he belongs and all is good again for him!

    I know humans and animals that have suffered more and for longer and not by choice either.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    In the real world the issue of universal sovereignty is likely to be USA versus China . That is until the lid comes off the Muslims and Islam takes over.

    Jehovah and Jesus are just a fictitious side show like Batman & Robin. At least Batman shared the danger with Robin!

  • finallysomepride
    finallysomepride

    I preferred to stay home to watch Batman than to ever attend a meeting at a KH or any church

  • reslight2
    reslight2

    Why did God send his son into the world?

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord Yahweh is on me; because Yahweh has anointed me to preach good news to the humble; he has sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening [of the prison] to those who are bound; Isaiah 61:2 to proclaim the year of Yahweh's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn;

    John 3:17 For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

    John 12:47 If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

    Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;
    Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
    Romand 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
    Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done before, in the forbearance of God;
    Romans 3:26 to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.

    Romans 5:8 God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    1 Corinthians 15:21 For since death came by man, the resurrection of the dead also came by man.
    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

    1 Timothy 1:15 The saying is faithful, and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    1 John 2:2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

    1 John 4:14 The Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.

    What did Jesus sacrifice for us?

    He gave his humanity — including his body of flesh — as an offsetting price, which sacrifice he formally presented as priest after his ascension. – - Hebrews 8:4; 9:24-26; 10:10.

    Jesus gave his blood in sacrifice.

    Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.

    Mark 14:24 He said to them, “This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many.

    Luke 22:20 He took the cup in like manner after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, that which is poured out for you.

    Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. – Revised Standard Version.

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.

    Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.

    However, what does Jesus' blood represent? Jesus’ human soul, which he also gave in sacrifice.

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life [Hebrew, nephesh - soul] of the flesh is in the blood.

    Deuteronomy 12:23 The blood is the life [Hebrew, nephesh - soul].

    The human soul consists of the body made from the dust of the ground and the neshamah, activated by spirit of life as received from God. — Genesis 2:7.

    Jesus sacrificed his human body:

    Hebrews 10:10 by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
    Hebrews 10:11 Every priest indeed stands day by day ministering and often offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins,
    Hebrews 10:12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    Hebrews 10:13 henceforth expecting until his enemies to be made the footstool of his feet.
    Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

    Luke 22:19 He took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave to them, saying, “This is *my body which is given [as an offering in sacrifice to God - Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14] for you*. Do this in memory of me.”

    Jesus sacrificed his flesh:

    John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down out of heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. Yes, the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

    Jesus sacrificed his human soul:

    Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life [soul] as a ransom [price to offset] for many.Isaiah 53:12 He *poured out his soul* to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.He died; he was totally dead, ceased to be sentient, else there has been no ransom. His body was given in sacrifice. (Hebrews 10:10; Luke 22:19) Jesus’ soul — his sentiency — was given in sacrifice (Ecclesiastes 9:5) and went into sheol, where there is no work, device, knowledge or wisdom, and wherein one cannot give thanks to, or praise to, Yahweh. (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18) Jesus’ human blood — which represents his human soul/being (Leviticus 17:11; Deuteronomy 12:23) — was given in sacrifice. (Mark 14:24; Acts 20:28; Hebrews 9:14) Thus his soul — his being — as raised, made alive, from the oblivious condition of sheol was no longer human, but spirit. -- 1 Peter 3:18.

    http://atonement.reslight.net

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    The WT's Universal Sovereignty doctrine is an attempt to explain the existence of evil when there is an all-powerful God. One must suspend one's disbelief to accept that doctrine. Because of the WT's carrot of future paradise, Kingdom promises, etc., many people take the bait and suspend any disbelief - if they ever saw the irony of claims of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-everything deity who sits idly by while terrible suffering goes on and on for centuries.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    I preferred to stay home to watch Batman than to ever attend a meeting at a KH or any church

    ROFL!!! That's the right idea!!

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Basically, God had a choice. After Adam and Eve and Satan had sinned, he could have just killed them both on the spot and started over. But then Adam's potential children, which is us would have been successfully murdered by Satan. In order to save us, time had to be given for essentially the bulk of Adam's chlidren to be born over 6000 years. In that way, they could be then saved. But that would also mean they would have to experience death and for some, a lot of suffering.

    So the loving arrangement was to save Adam's children and minimize damage done by Satan.

    So this is YOUR CHOICE: Would you rather be born, live a life with some hardships or even many hardships, with the chance to live forever later? Or would you prefer never to have been born at all? So the suffering is part of the "birth pangs" of getting to have life. A minor sacrifice on our parts, I think most would agree.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    I think the ransom sacrifice is the answer to God's wrath. I'd rather not have God's wrath.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    In all fairness, if God allowed his sovereignty to be questioned, wouldn't that have meant that mankind and the angels could have left God? And then anyone born after that time would have been forced to live in an ungodly world. Think about it: as it is, a "third" of the angels turned against God. None of humanity except eight people were worshipping God before the Flood came.

    If Noah and his family didn't exist... then who would there have been to save? Either God would have destroyed everyone, or been forced to allow all humans to live under the Devil's influence, because the Devil would have proven his point before all the angels, that man only served God when he blessed them and protected them in return. So God would have lost control of his creation and they would have gone on to live lawlessly for the rest of eternity.

    At least, that's one way of looking at it. That was my line of thinking when I was a Witness, anyway.

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