If it makes you feel any better Skeeter, I think the No Child Left Behind crap is just that. Crap. It's about making a ton of cash on testing, and passing the buck on actually trying to help our students succeed.
No Child Left Behind Testing
by skeeter1 36 Replies latest social family
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skeeter1
Thank you Berengaria!
No Child Left Behind - Another Bush failed idea.
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Berengaria
Wellllll, it didn't fail for Neil Bush............
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ABibleStudent
What school did you go to? I learned this in 5th or 6th grade in Utah. It was a very difficult transition for me to transfer into the Utah schools in January from a California school.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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Kudra
Well, I think the tests are likely not good for a gauge of how our kids are doing but I still think that a 6th grader should be able to do that multi-step area of a square problem.
I also think we should avoid getting our knickers in a knot about it because I doubt anyone here has any sort of advanced degree in education philosophy... or maybe someone *does* and they can pipe in about the age-appropriateness of that problem...
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JeffT
I just checked with my wife who has been an early childhood educator for 20+ years. She says a sixth grader should be able to do that.
An additional thought that I had a few minutes ago: you're doing your child a real disservice. Tell them its too hard and they can't do it, and they won't be able to do it. Give them paper, pencil, scissors, some sheets of paper and tell them to figure it out, and they'll figure it out in an afternoon. They will not only have that problem resolved but they'll know how to find the answer to all similar problems they encounter in the future.
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skeeter1
1970's. Palm Beach County, Florida. Couldn't get any HIGHER tax dollars or better education then I had from a public school. We didn't do these type of problems, until high school.
Not good for a standardized test. Not a good gauge of what skill a child knows. I could see this type of question as an add-on, to separate the exceptional students. But, not for ALL the students.
This is why the teachers "teach" to the test. They drill the kids before, the kids memorize the steps, take the test, forget the steps, and little "education" has occurred. I have meetings with the teachers. One math teacher was jumping around the subject areas. I asked why? Becuase they cover "breadth" of material, not depth. Before, we did 30 fraction problems for 30 days to "cement" how to do it. Now, it's a few days of fractions, then off to another topic.
I remember in Kindergarten, she was in private school. She had math class. It was 8 + 2 = ?. It was 10 of these questions a week (2 a night) for homework. It was clicking. She was doing ok in math. She took the SAT for Kindergarten and scored well in math for that age group.
Then, the first day of the first grade, she went to public. Her first day of homework was "12 is the difference between 18 and what number." I complained, and the teacher said, "We're teaching to the test in the 3rd grade. We show them alot of concepts they will not get right now. But, it makes it easier in the next grade when they've seen it before. The third grade wll be her first standardized test" So, I bit my tongue. In about 2 weeks, my daughter came home saying that she hated math and felt stupid. It's been a long battle road. Now, I look at public school as getting her basics, and then I reteach (homeschool) her at night in alot of these subjects.
I have to be my child's biggest advocate. My child has a mild learning disability; that she is growing out of now that she is maturing. It takes alot of blood, sweat, and tears to keep her at grade levels. You insult me with "Doing her a disservice." Becuase if you only knew how much I work with the teachers and school to get her an education. In the third grade, she read at 1st grade levels. Her "brain" ddn't get it and she has always panicked. We pulled every reading "trick" from hearing impaired on the television to reading comprehension drills to reading restaurant menus & cereal boxes to private tutors. Now, she's at the 9th grade reading level. She's read many books - about 3 a month. Divergent, Legend, and Specials are what she's read lately. She reads all the time. Her brain developed in that area. Same thing with math. In the 1st grade, she didn't know that 10 was more then 7. She said that becuase 7 was closer to 1 and 1 was the best number, that 7 had to be the better (larger number). Her brain is developing. Now, she can do all of this as a single problem with one item in it. But, it's not at this level yet of deductive reasoning. And, these tests are super discouraging for her. So, your wife's "one size fits all" mentality just gets my knickers in a wad.
I really feel for the parents who do not have the means or ability to help thier kids. I think this is part of the reason there is a large drop out rate.
The college freshman, are they "No Child Left Behind" prodigy? OMG, just wait until they hit your class. I'd like to be a fly on that wall.
Skeeter
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Berengaria
My beef is with the fact that the NCLB tests determine funding/staffing.
And if a kid can't pass that test, what is done to provide them with extra help and attention? That's not what the testing is for. If it were, I could see some value to it.
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finally awake
ABible Student asked "What school did you go to?"
I don't know who he meant this for, but I'll chime in. I went to Anna Junior High and Anna Jonesboro Community High School. I graduated in 1988. I *know* I didn't learn anything this complicated until my sophmore year of high school. Mrs. Travis was my geometry teacher and I distinctly remember very similar word problems that I had to carefully pick apart to get to the correct answer. Prior to that year, math problems were much simpler one or two step affairs.
Now, was my education deficient? I don't think so. I passed my AP Physics exam without studying for it, I medalled in state level academic competitions in high school (yes, nerd, I know), and I graduated college with honors. I can't imagine what high school student needs to learn more math in high school than I did.
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skeeter1
Finally Awake,
I graduated in 1986. I had a very similar experience. My first time at multi-step dissection of math problems was 9th grade geometry when we learned proofs. Before that, it was simple one to two steps in a problem.
I graduated High School with AP Physics - passed. Won an award at a physics competition for all of South Florida for building the bridge with the hghest load and length ratings. Got one of the highest ACT scores in science in Palm Beach County. I was told I would get a full scholarship to Boston University's engineering school (by a BU recruiter), but passed it up becase of the Truth (couldn't go to college & leave home & wouldn't disobey my parents).
In college in Skeeterville, I took Calculus I, II, III, and IV. Differential Equations, Matrix Theory, Statistics 1 & 2 (calculus based, with Masters students) and passed my first actuary exam . . . . all by the time I was 21 years old. Honor Society in college. Tutored in the math lab, teaching alot of nursing students.
Could I have done this problem in the 6th grade? If someone had drilled it into me, I suppose I could have done it. Sort of like how we robotically did those talks as kids. All rogue memorization with no independent reasoning.
Skeeter,
Geek with a Southern Accent.