Governing Body's Doctrinal Errors Vs. Jesus Apostles' so called errors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

by I_love_Jeff 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  I_love_Jeff

  If the Apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit, how could they have made any doctrinal errors as mentioned by many Jehovah's Witnesses? The Governing body has admitted to making doctrinal errors and state that " you might as well condem Jesus' Apostles as well since they too had made errors. I have read that the Apostles had only made behavior mistakes NOT errors in doctrinal writings.

  "The New Testament makes it abundantly clear that doctrinal error can lead to eternal damnation.

  Didache is a noun found thirty times in the New Testament to mean “doctrine,” “teaching.” Didaskalia is a synonym for didache, and denotes “doctrine,” or “teaching” throughout the nearly twenty occurrences of the term. The teaching or doctrine of Jesus Christ comes through his words revealed in his personal ministry and ASSURED TO the apostles and prophets in the first century through the work of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 16:12-13). The Lord Jesus declared his Word to be the standard by which all people living today will be judged (John 12:48). One cannot reject him or his teaching and remain guiltless."

  http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/

  Governing Body operates under guidance of Holy Spirit as a collective group, after prayer. Does Jehovah direct what appears in the Watchtower journals? Obviously not, since so much has been wrong.
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  unstopableravens

  they minimize jesus so why not the apostles, the wt will say what ever they need to ,if it will save them face,they no not jesus or the father!
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  matt2414

  One scripture the GB uses to support their mistakes is Acts 1:6 about the apostles: "So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"" The GB claims that the apostles made a mistake in believing, after having been with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, that the kingdom was going to be established then and there on earth. Over the years they have used this text as permission to keep falsely claiming when the end will come. But they fail to recognize that the apostles were merely asking Jesus a question about the end, they weren't calling themselves God's mouthpiece and preaching their mistake as new light, while threatening to shun anyone who disagreed with them. The GB fails to consider the next verse at Acts 1:7: "[God] said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."
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  Phizzy

  Asking Jesus what his plans were is hardly a "Doctrinal" error on the Apostles part, they were simply recognising his claim to be the Messiah, and that is exactly what all the Messiahs of the time were expected to do, establish the free Kingdom of Judah again.

  I cannot think of a Doctrinal error that the Apostles taught.

  The GB claim that their "expectations" are simply because they are "on the watch" when of course we know it is simply to keep the R&F hard at it and locked in.

  This raises a very interesting point. 1 John 4v1 commands to "test the inspired expression....... because many false prophets have gone forth into the world".

  The GB will immediately cry "We do not claim to be inspired !"

  I would then love to have the following conversation with the GB :

  "no, but you claim to be "Spirit Directed" and the basic Greek of 1John 4 v 1 is "spirit word".

  And even if we let you get away with "we are not inspired" which is one of the only true things you ever utttered, is it not more important to "test the expression" of mere uninspired men who claim to speak for God ?

  God has commanded that such claims as yours be tested, so though you may shout and bluster, it is incumbent on all Jehovah's Witnesses to "Test" your words and claims, Christians " must obey God rather than men".
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  moggy lover

  Further to the above posts, the relationship of the apostles to Christ must also be kept in mind. They were still disciples, a word which means "learners, or students". Like all good students they were always learning while in the presence of the Master, and what better way to learn than to ask questions. Thus, there is no evidence here that they themselves were expressing a doctrinal maxim, to be classed under "false expectations".

  In fact quite the contrary. The only source of doctrinal imperatives is, now, as it was back then, Jesus Himself, and He made no statement one way or the other on this subject. Going insofar as to imply that this was none of their business. This should alert all potential disciples [or learners] that no definitive statement will ever be forthcomimg so the best methodology is: Keep your trap shut. This subject then becomes closed till He Comes again.

  Those first century followers learned their lesson well never having made any statements regarding the exact time for the fulfillment of prophecy. Their role was to believe that they were, as we all should believe, living in the Last Days. Live as if this is the Last Days, but evangelize for tomorrow.

  The GB on the other hand are not learning as disciples, but TEACHING. Just as Jesus taught the disciples, they have usurped this role for themselves and presume to TEACH the rank and file. So the comparisons are artificially created to excuse a massive fraud perpertrated on the the rest of the Watchtower followers.

  A. Jesus taught the disciples. B. They learned by asking questions.

  A The GB teach the rank and file. B. No questioning or debate is tolerated, even in the face of false teaching.
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  punkofnice

  I don't have the refs with me at the moment but there is a scripture that the JWs use to say the apostles made mistakes. Actually, the scripture doesn't say who it was that was asking......could have been one of the crowd.

  Whoever it was they only ASKED and didn't go printing it it childish magazines as a law that you must believe or lose your family and friends.

  The GB are bully boy fraudsters.
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  The Searcher

  @PHIZZY -

  Just my view on one thing;

  Apparently, the apostles (and others up in Jerusalem got one teaching wrong, but it was not an established doctrine. It was the fulfillment of the vision given to Peter regarding what was now clean in God'ss eyes, and led him to Cornelius.

  This was definitely a "new light" - one which pointed to circumcision being unnecessary for Christians, but Peter and the other apostles hadn't grasped God's will about it, and were still adhering to the Jewish teaching.

  Hennce the reason why Paul (not a mythical G.B.) was directed by Holy Spirit to resolve and clarify the matter, by travelling to Jerusalem (with witnesses) to convince those prominent ones that circumcision was no longer required. (Galatians 2:1-9)

  "Consider this, the hint of the century"
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  Phizzy

  Thanks The Searcher, I simply could not recall an example, as you say this is still a little different from the GB's flip-flops and total errors , it is more of a case of not seeing the full import rather than teaching something in full opposition.

  Paul was explicit when writing to the Galatians that no more new light would happen, the Gospel he had been given was the end of the matter.
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  Terry

  The way to get the clearest view of Governing Body doctrine is to look from the context of NOW backward toward BACK THEN.

  NOW is always correct. It can't be questioned. It must be accepted. However, looking toward BACK THEN (old teachings now changed) not only are they refutable....they are self-refuted by the Governing Body.

  Here is the tricky part:

  How did the Holy Spirit have a part in those failed writing, teachings now changed?

  Was Holy Spirit "guiding" Old Light? If so, why?

  The Watchtower wants us to accept without analysis. Always.

  But, either they are speculating, guessing, conjecturing and then changing accroding to trial-and-error-----OR..they are guided by Holy Spirit.

  Exactly WHICH is it?

  Old Light is simply error. For whatever "reason."

  Why part would Jehovah's Holy Spirit have in that?

  You see? It just makes no sense. But, they won't OWN it!

  Jehovah is dragged kicking and screaming into their error by "correcting them".......see how that works?

  Jehovah was looking the other way and now steps in after the crap hits the fan!

  Jehovah is sloppy!

  Even the most feeble mind can see the flaw in this process.

  Why wouldn't Jehovah GET IT RIGHT by GUIDING rather than clean up and repair?
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  MsD

  Interesting.... I've asked the same questions many times to the witnesses I previously studied with and they always used the excuse that the apostles also made mistakes. I could never back up with any info since I didn't look into depth on that subject. Now, I've got plenty info to back up that they do not have Holy Spirit since they've made serious doctrinal changes/mistakes that the apostles obviously did not.